Starter pistol loudness?

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Dash_9
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Starter pistol loudness?

Post by Dash_9 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:12 pm

Hey all. I've been shooting a 209 primer pistol around my dog so far. She hasn't winced at it yet, and I'm just about firing it over her head without issues. What comes next in terms of noise volume? I cannot legally fire a gun outside of hunting season where I train, so I need to get as close as I possibly can before having to look for some private land I can fire a shotgun on.

RichK
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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by RichK » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:26 pm

Any gun clubs nearby?

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MillerClemsonHD
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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by MillerClemsonHD » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:39 pm

Dash_9 wrote:Hey all. I've been shooting a 209 primer pistol around my dog so far. She hasn't winced at it yet, and I'm just about firing it over her head without issues. What comes next in terms of noise volume? I cannot legally fire a gun outside of hunting season where I train, so I need to get as close as I possibly can before having to look for some private land I can fire a shotgun on.

If there are no birds around you need to stop firing around your dog period before you cause a problem. What was your plan if she she did wince? keep going till she runs off and is good and gun shy?

I think it gets posted on this forum about once a week how to properly intro a gun, its in every video and book about training bird dogs.

Whatever you do don't take the dog anywhere near the "bleep" gun club or range. That is the absolute worst plan.

Dash_9
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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by Dash_9 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:01 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:
Dash_9 wrote:Hey all. I've been shooting a 209 primer pistol around my dog so far. She hasn't winced at it yet, and I'm just about firing it over her head without issues. What comes next in terms of noise volume? I cannot legally fire a gun outside of hunting season where I train, so I need to get as close as I possibly can before having to look for some private land I can fire a shotgun on.

If there are no birds around you need to stop firing around your dog period before you cause a problem. What was your plan if she she did wince? keep going till she runs off and is good and gun shy?

I think it gets posted on this forum about once a week how to properly intro a gun, its in every video and book about training bird dogs.

Whatever you do don't take the dog anywhere near the "bleep" gun club or range. That is the absolute worst plan.
Don't assume the worst. I'm using the pistol in conjunction with birds. I was asking about the progression from the 209 to the shotgun. Like, from the 209...go to a (blank) then go to your 20 gauge next, etc.

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gundogguy
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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by gundogguy » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:43 pm

Ditto on gun clubs skeet ranges and the like do not take a dog to range for any reason Ranges are for target shooting not dog training.

Not having seen you dog a good rule thumb would be you could start killing birds once you can walk in and flush the bird while your dog holds point. as long as you notice no differences in your dogs attitude about the activity during the process of finding his training birds "If there are no birds around you need to stop firing around your dog period before you cause a problem" If you are not using birds during training then my advice is worthless. Get some birds start over if you have a problem getting birds enlist the service of a "Pro".

This link is a sound way to introduce a pointing dog to gunfire. Pay close attention the handlers movement one the pup goes on point gunfire come at point of the flush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d7W7VhIVcM

Screw this phase up with your pup at this point in it development and you will be looking for a new hunting companion.
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Dash_9
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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by Dash_9 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:24 pm

I don't think I'm explaining myself well here...certainty wouldn't be the first time. :|

I already know not to take the dog to a shooting range and hope for the best.
gundogguy wrote:Not having seen you dog a good rule thumb would be you could start killing birds once you can walk in and flush the bird while your dog holds point.
This is where I'm at with her. I have already had my partner shoot the gun standing several hundred feet behind me on a released bird, and since shes shown no reaction to the gun we've moved up a bit with it each training session. At this point, she's off the check cord. She will lock up on point, hold, and I can move in and "flush" the bird. After the bird takes flight, my partner, who is about 20 feet away from me now, fires the gun, and I can go to her and release her off point.

So getting back to my original question, can I go to my 20 gauge from the 209, repeating the distance and advancing process? Are there other blanks/pistols that are louder than the 209, but quieter than the 20 gauge that I should use FIRST?

I ask this since before I did any gun introduction...I read that you should start with quieter blanks/primers and work your way up (in terms of loudness). Problem is I don't know if .22 blanks are louder than the .209 or the .32 is quieter or what.

As I have said I cannot shoot the 20 gauge right now out of hunting season. I want to start shooting birds over her but I need to find some private land in order to do that. For right now I was looking for the blank/primer that gets me closest to the volume of an actual shotgun. I sure hope I've cleared this up a bit.

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hi-tailyn
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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by hi-tailyn » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:51 pm

For the most part the 209 is louder than a 20g or 12g pointed away from you and the dog. The 209 is only surpassed in loudness by the 32 blank.

You don't want to muzzle blast over or close to dog in training till they have had lots of gunfire with birds killed for them. You know how much the muzzle blast hurts your ears.

The shotguns are a directed noise that usually is directed away from people and unfortunately over our dog friends.

Moving onto the shotguns after you have conditioned them to the 209's is the same introduction yet you have already surpassed the noise level.
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Dash_9
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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by Dash_9 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:58 pm

hi-tailyn wrote:For the most part the 209 is louder than a 20g or 12g pointed away from you and the dog. The 209 is only surpassed in loudness by the 32 blank.

You don't want to muzzle blast over or close to dog in training till they have had lots of gunfire with birds killed for them. You know how much the muzzle blast hurts your ears.

The shotguns are a directed noise that usually is directed away from people and unfortunately over our dog friends.

Moving onto the shotguns after you have conditioned them to the 209's is the same introduction yet you have already surpassed the noise level.
Thank you, just what I was looking for. I didn't have a comparison since every time I've shot my 20 gauge at clays so far I've had ear plugs in. I didn't find the 209 THAT loud but I still couldn't quite compare it to a 20 gauge or 12 gauge from memory.

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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by RichK » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:06 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:
Dash_9 wrote:Hey all. I've been shooting a 209 primer pistol around my dog so far. She hasn't winced at it yet, and I'm just about firing it over her head without issues. What comes next in terms of noise volume? I cannot legally fire a gun outside of hunting season where I train, so I need to get as close as I possibly can before having to look for some private land I can fire a shotgun on.

If there are no birds around you need to stop firing around your dog period before you cause a problem. What was your plan if she she did wince? keep going till she runs off and is good and gun shy?

I think it gets posted on this forum about once a week how to properly intro a gun, its in every video and book about training bird dogs.

Whatever you do don't take the dog anywhere near the "bleep" gun club or range. That is the absolute worst plan.


I was asking because if he doesn't have any of his own land to release birds on and intro gun a gun club is more than suitable. All of the clubs I belong to have plenty of land where you can plant/release birds and intro a dog to gun fire.

Dash_9
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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by Dash_9 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:08 pm

RichK wrote:
MillerClemsonHD wrote:
Dash_9 wrote:Hey all. I've been shooting a 209 primer pistol around my dog so far. She hasn't winced at it yet, and I'm just about firing it over her head without issues. What comes next in terms of noise volume? I cannot legally fire a gun outside of hunting season where I train, so I need to get as close as I possibly can before having to look for some private land I can fire a shotgun on.

If there are no birds around you need to stop firing around your dog period before you cause a problem. What was your plan if she she did wince? keep going till she runs off and is good and gun shy?

I think it gets posted on this forum about once a week how to properly intro a gun, its in every video and book about training bird dogs.

Whatever you do don't take the dog anywhere near the "bleep" gun club or range. That is the absolute worst plan.


I was asking because if he doesn't have any of his own land to release birds on and intro gun a gun club is more than suitable. All of the clubs I belong to have plenty of land where you can plant/release birds and intro a dog to gun fire.
I knew what you meant by that. I do possibly have one I could use but it's a hike for me to get to

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GunDogAdventures
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Re: Starter pistol loudness?

Post by GunDogAdventures » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:34 am

Gundogsupply has a nice demonstration video showing the difference between Fiocchi 12 ga. blanks and poppers. To me, the blanks sound much like a .22 crimp. I've graduated directly from crimps to poppers in the past with success, but these blnks seem like a nice middle ground. You might have luck locating Corps of Engineers land on which you can fire those. Sounds like you're doing it right - taking it nice and slow.
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