AKC & e-collars

[Nutmeg247]

On the pointing dog yahoo forum, a poster noted this segment on Fox,


http://video.foxnews.com/v/378291358000 ... show-clips

discussing this underlying study, http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0102722 on e-collars and pet dog welfare. The AKC rep is apparently Gina DiNardo, and she is taking the stance that purely positive training is preferable to training that includes e-collars or other aversives (though she does not seem well-versed enough in training theory, quite frankly, to appreciate that she seems to be against any P+ or, from her rhetoric, possibly even P-).

I hadn't seen this mentioned on here; apologies if I missed something and am making a redundant post. The AKC seems to be buying into the growing sentiment to ban e-collars and prong or pinch collars among other things. I think it is valid to ask the AKC what its stance is on head halters, which many dogs find more aversive than prongs or e-collars. It seems they are ignoring a large part of their member base as regards e-collars.

[Fun dog]

Nice to know someone can train their dog to 100 perfect obedience. The rest of us are just poor dog trainers, I guess

[chrokeva]

I do not have a lot of respect for the AKC so no surprise that they would take the politically correct stance. AKC is a money making business and I do not believe what is best for dogs is there priority (that is up to us dog owners). I personally am struggling with if I want to use a e-collar going forward in the training for my pup but the last one that I would take advise from is the AKC.

[Bluesky2012]

I do not have a lot of respect for the AKC so no surprise that they would take the politically correct stance. AKC is a money making business and I do not believe what is best for dogs is there priority (that is up to us dog owners). I personally am struggling with if I want to use a e-collar going forward in the training for my pup but the last one that I would take advise from is the AKC.

You say that now. Use an e collar after learning how to. You don't know how much better your life can be yet.

[gonehuntin']

This same discussion is going on in General Forum.

[EvanG]

Someone help me out here. I've read on forums all over the Internet about this issue. What is it that the AKC is actually proposing to do? They are not a law making body, so they can't even introduce a bill, much less ratify it. They can't sign a bill into law. Exactly how will they ban e-collar use? Will they form an AKC police force to stop everyone out training in the field and slap their hands, confiscate their transmitters? Seriously, what power to they have to execute such a ban?

At the moment I still don't care what the AKC likes.

EvanG

[Iowa]

They have a large voice to the general public and have lots of lobbyist. This is not a good thing.

[41magsnub]

They have a large voice to the general public and have lots of lobbyist. This is not a good thing.

And.. I can see the "common sense" legislation now. Either the AKC or humane society get a congressman to introduce the anti-animal cruelty bill that bans e-collar use. Add in some verbiage making it even more illegal to run dog fights or something. It will have the endorsement of both the AKC and the humane society. If you don't support that bill, you must be pro-animal cruelty right?

[EvanG]

Just received this letter


Dear Evan Graham,

On Saturday morning, AKC agreed to appear on Fox & Friends to discuss our thoughts on the use of e-collars for pet training, a buzzed about subject triggered from the release of a recent study.

The AKC has never called for a ban on e-collars. The AKC supports choice in training methods, as well as trusting the experts. Our thousands of field trial, performance and companion participants are the experts, those with the training experience and knowledge to obtain AKC titles on their dogs. It is our opinion that when placed in the informed hands of professionals, e-collars are an appropriate and effective tool for training dogs that are not only well behaved in the home but also competitive in the field. In fact, listed under the heading “Training Collars,” our position in support of e-collars as it pertains to AKC events, dog clubs and professional trainers has not wavered since it was adopted by the Board of Directors in 2001.

When we accept national media opportunities, we see them as a chance to talk to the nearly 57 million dog-owning households across the country who may not know about AKC’s resources and offerings. For better or worse, the vast majority of those owners will face struggles at the most basic level of training, not the complexities of handling performance-level dogs in the field or advanced companion work. When we appeared on Fox & Friends, it was our intention to speak to those novice owners who are seeking the best methods to create well-trained pets. Those methods do not include misuse or overuse of e-collars at the hands of amateur owners, an opinion with which I’m sure any dog expert can agree. AKC maintains its encouragement of positive reinforcement techniques for those beginner owners.

We continue to support the training techniques used by our experienced, responsible, and dedicated performance and companion competitors, and we apologize for not making that distinction clear during Saturday’s segment.

Sincerely,
James Crowley, Executive Secretary
American Kennel Club

[shags]

What a doofus response.

Positive only training can be trickier to get right by 'pet parents' than proper use of a collar. Viewing just one episode of Cesar Millan's show will demonstrate that.

Maybe these executives should stick to business, and let trainers take care of training.

[Nutmeg247]

What a doofus response.

Positive only training can be trickier to get right by 'pet parents' than proper use of a collar. Viewing just one episode of Cesar Millan's show will demonstrate that.

Maybe these executives should stick to business, and let trainers take care of training.

I wouldn't exactly class Cesar Milan as a positive only trainer.

Here in Nevada there's actually a hunting exception from the "no dogs left unattended in cars on hot days" law. The AKC seems to have clarified that it kinda sorta wants a similar standard in place, at least as a matter of advice, for e-collars. As a technical matter, they don't seem to address what to do with other aversives, or to say what "positive" means in their case and for CGC.

I honestly can see that a lot of pet owners will do stupid stuff, whether with a bark collar or an e-collar, and that for those determined not to learn how to train a dog or unable to follow a program of training, it might be better to end up with an untrained dog that got lots of clicks and some sort of reward for something, than an untrained dog that's freaked out or aggressive from heavy misuse of an e-collar. The main issue there though is lousy dog trainers, not the equipment.

[chrokeva]

Just received this letter


Dear Evan Graham,

On Saturday morning, AKC agreed to appear on Fox & Friends to discuss our thoughts on the use of e-collars for pet training, a buzzed about subject triggered from the release of a recent study.

The AKC has never called for a ban on e-collars. The AKC supports choice in training methods, as well as trusting the experts. Our thousands of field trial, performance and companion participants are the experts, those with the training experience and knowledge to obtain AKC titles on their dogs. It is our opinion that when placed in the informed hands of professionals, e-collars are an appropriate and effective tool for training dogs that are not only well behaved in the home but also competitive in the field. In fact, listed under the heading “Training Collars,” our position in support of e-collars as it pertains to AKC events, dog clubs and professional trainers has not wavered since it was adopted by the Board of Directors in 2001.

When we accept national media opportunities, we see them as a chance to talk to the nearly 57 million dog-owning households across the country who may not know about AKC’s resources and offerings. For better or worse, the vast majority of those owners will face struggles at the most basic level of training, not the complexities of handling performance-level dogs in the field or advanced companion work. When we appeared on Fox & Friends, it was our intention to speak to those novice owners who are seeking the best methods to create well-trained pets. Those methods do not include misuse or overuse of e-collars at the hands of amateur owners, an opinion with which I’m sure any dog expert can agree. AKC maintains its encouragement of positive reinforcement techniques for those beginner owners.

We continue to support the training techniques used by our experienced, responsible, and dedicated performance and companion competitors, and we apologize for not making that distinction clear during Saturday’s segment.

Sincerely,
James Crowley, Executive Secretary
American Kennel Club

This same letter is all over the internet...seems AKC sent out hundreds if not thousands of this same letter.
Seems like they are just trying to placate some of there performance competitors to me. If they truly are sorry for not making the distinction they should make a public statement to make that clear to everyone.

[shags]

What a doofus response.

Positive only training can be trickier to get right by 'pet parents' than proper use of a collar. Viewing just one episode of Cesar Millan's show will demonstrate that.

Maybe these executives should stick to business, and let trainers take care of training.

I wouldn't exactly class Cesar Milan as a positive only trainer.

No, he isn't but he gets lots of work from people who think they are

[Nutmeg247]

What a doofus response.

Positive only training can be trickier to get right by 'pet parents' than proper use of a collar. Viewing just one episode of Cesar Millan's show will demonstrate that.

Maybe these executives should stick to business, and let trainers take care of training.

I wouldn't exactly class Cesar Milan as a positive only trainer.

No, he isn't but he gets lots of work from people who think they are

I see your point, but the episodes I've watched, I can't say I've seen a single dog who'd received consistent, organized "positive only" training, either. More the "potted plant" training approach, it seems, just food and water and hope things works out.