JH Test Prep

[RichK]

I'm testing Diesel this weekend for her JH test. I'm confident she'll do well. Here's a clip from tonight. Great nose on her and her pointing gets more solid each training session.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10 ... _processed

[DonF]

Nice pup. has to desire and the willingness to point. If it were my pup, I'd skip JH and got to where you eventually want to be. If master is what you want, go right out after it. Take longer but in the meantime your training for master and not putting things on hold as a SH. SH can only teach things you don't want and you'll have to over come. Very nice pup!

[RichK]

Nice pup. has to desire and the willingness to point. If it were my pup, I'd skip JH and got to where you eventually want to be. If master is what you want, go right out after it. Take longer but in the meantime your training for master and not putting things on hold as a SH. SH can only teach things you don't want and you'll have to over come. Very nice pup!

Thanks, I've been real happy with this pup.

[RichK]

Diesel qualified today on her first leg of the JH and her first AKC test ever. I was proud of her, she worked hard and held stead on her point. Wind was terrible, changing direction every 20-30 seconds, it made scenting conditions very tough.

[Ms. Cage]

Congrats , Nice job !!! I agree with DonF thou...

[Fun dog]

Congrats , Nice job !!! I agree with DonF thou...

Me too!

[Sharon]

Come on folks. He's obviously decide to go for the JH and is having a great time, very proud of his dog's accomplishments. Not the time to tell him he shouldn't be bothered. Congrats Rick and Diesel.

[RichK]

Come on folks. He's obviously decide to go for the JH and is having a great time, very proud of his dog's accomplishments. Not the time to tell him he shouldn't be bothered. Congrats Rick and Diesel.

Personally, I like the JH tests. Obviously the pup isn't ready for MH level work right now and a JH test is better than her sitting at home for the next year or so until she's ready for MH. I don't understand the negative bias against the JH level. For me it's a great opportunity to get to run her with brace mates other than my other GSP.

[Sharon]

Absolutely. I did the JH level too. I learned plenty there talking to more experienced handlers too. In fairness though , some folks think a dog can develop some bad habits in JH - too easy to grab a bird for example.

[RichK]

Absolutely. I did the JH level too. I learned plenty there talking to more experienced handlers too. In fairness though , some folks think a dog can develop some bad habits in JH - too easy to grab a bird for example.

I completely agree. I had that problem with my other GSP, birds don't fly/flush worth a "bleep" and he started trapping them. Took me all summer to break him of it.

[ezzy333]

Absolutely. I did the JH level too. I learned plenty there talking to more experienced handlers too. In fairness though , some folks think a dog can develop some bad habits in JH - too easy to grab a bird for example.

I completely agree. I had that problem with my other GSP, birds don't fly/flush worth a "bleep" and he started trapping them. Took me all summer to break him of it.

If catching a bird is a bad habit that was learned from one experience I wouldn't worry about it as I doubt if there is a dog alive that hasn't caught several birds. Habits are learned from repeated experiences. There is much to be learned at every level of test and training and probably more at the JH level than any other when it us done properly. By that I mean make it a Natural Ability test and do not train for it. Let the pup show what it can do and the same for the handler. Both need the experience. Personally I don't consider doing the MH as my idea of a good dog is one that figures things out for itself and the last thing I want is a robot in the field that thinks it has to be under someone's control at all times. And the same problem exists for many hunters and handlers.

Ezzy

[Fun dog]

One test maybe not a problem, but it takes at least 4 tests to get your title. A dog catches 1 or 2 birds each test. You have no control over what the dog does. No training device. 4 to 8 birds caught in a short amount of time. Yes the dog learns a lot. it learns you have no control. It learns that it can chase and catch birds and what fun that is. And yes, it can take a long time to break them of these habits. So enter the JH test if you want. Just be forewarned that problems can emerge that are going to take time to fix. I really wished someone would have told me these things before I entered my first dog in a JH test. Although I'm not sure I would have listened as some things you gave to learn the hard way.

Oh congratulations on passing.

[jbonesky]

Congrats! Great looking pup.

[RayGubernat]

Come on folks. He's obviously decide to go for the JH and is having a great time, very proud of his dog's accomplishments. Not the time to tell him he shouldn't be bothered. Congrats Rick and Diesel.

Personally, I like the JH tests. Obviously the pup isn't ready for MH level work right now and a JH test is better than her sitting at home for the next year or so until she's ready for MH. I don't understand the negative bias against the JH level. For me it's a great opportunity to get to run her with brace mates other than my other GSP.

Sometimes, the things we do with our dogs are for the dog and sometimes they are for us. sometimes for both.

If you enjoy doing hunt tests and your dog is ready for junior that is what you should do. As long as you know what the possible pitfalls are for the dog...go have fun.

I do not do hunt tests myself, but if I did, I think I would concentrate on Senior level tests, as that appears to me to be the level at which I would want my hunting dog to be. But that is just me.

I did screw up a really good puppy once by running her in too many horseback puppy stakes. Took a couple of years to get her right again. But it sure was fun.

RayG

[shags]

What's the big deal? If your dog is ripping birds at a JH test, then pick him up. You're only out the entry money, but both you and the dog have learned something. Most dogs aren't going to be anywhere near ruined by ripping a few birds ( Ray's pointer excluded ;0) )

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

Come on folks. He's obviously decide to go for the JH and is having a great time, very proud of his dog's accomplishments. Not the time to tell him he shouldn't be bothered. Congrats Rick and Diesel.

Personally, I like the JH tests. Obviously the pup isn't ready for MH level work right now and a JH test is better than her sitting at home for the next year or so until she's ready for MH. I don't understand the negative bias against the JH level. For me it's a great opportunity to get to run her with brace mates other than my other GSP.

Sometimes, the things we do with our dogs are for the dog and sometimes they are for us. sometimes for both.

If you enjoy doing hunt tests and your dog is ready for junior that is what you should do. As long as you know what the possible pitfalls are for the dog...go have fun.

I do not do hunt tests myself, but if I did, I think I would concentrate on Senior level tests, as that appears to me to be the level at which I would want my hunting dog to be. But that is just me.

I did screw up a really good puppy once by running her in too many horseback puppy stakes. Took a couple of years to get her right again. But it sure was fun.

RayG

I personally train for Master and don't waste money on JH, NA or Puppy Stakes. I would rather donate, plant, or shoot birds to support my clubs but I love to watch puppies run. Let them trap, bump and run. It is all fixable when they mature.

Just curious Ray but why would you want a Senior over a Master for a hunting dog?

[shags]

From what I've observed locally, the senior dogs have spark and joy in them. A lot of the master dogs look mechanical and very much like they're overly controlled. Not all of course, but enough to make ya wonder.

[Ms. Cage]

A lot of the master dogs look mechanical and very much like they're overly controlled. Not all of course, but enough to make ya wonder.

Has nothing to do with the MH stake or requirements . Has everything to do with how a trainer chooses to train for and handle in MH.

[RayGubernat]

Just curious Ray but why would you want a Senior over a Master for a hunting dog?

The way I read the requirements, the senior dog has everything I would need in a hunting dog. I cannot remember a single instance of having to have my dog on point or backing and having to stand there while the other dog made the retrieve.

As I said, I do not do hunt tests, so my perspective and perceptions may be inaccurate, but it seems to me that the Master level is more about obedience than hunting. Not that the extra obedience and polish are a bad thing...not at all. It is just that I can't honestly say I need all of that in a hunting dog.

I have to say that in the few(and it has been only a few) Master Hunter tests I have observed a fair number of dogs seemed to be much more controlled in their ground application, than I like. Not all... but a fair bunch. The Senior dogs I have seen (again only a few) seemed to be, as a generality, more free wheeling, which is more to my liking.

I hunted for years behind dogs that were staunch only. They would find and hold birds...for as long as it took me to get there, but once the bird hit the air, the dog was off to the races. I was, and still am... fine with that for the kind of hunting I do.

I do enjoy a dog that is steady to wing, and shot, and fall...but keeping dogs that way can be a gigantic PIA and can, for me, take some of the enjoyment out of the hunt, because you can never really get out of training mode and relax.

RayG

[SubMariner]

Just curious Ray but why would you want a Senior over a Master for a hunting dog?

The way I read the requirements, the senior dog has everything I would need in a hunting dog. I cannot remember a single instance of having to have my dog on point or backing and having to stand there while the other dog made the retrieve.

As I said, I do not do hunt tests, so my perspective and perceptions may be inaccurate, but it seems to me that the Master level is more about obedience than hunting. Not that the extra obedience and polish are a bad thing...not at all. It is just that I can't honestly say I need all of that in a hunting dog.

I have to say that in the few(and it has been only a few) Master Hunter tests I have observed a fair number of dogs seemed to be much more controlled in their ground application, than I like. Not all... but a fair bunch. The Senior dogs I have seen (again only a few) seemed to be, as a generality, more free wheeling, which is more to my liking.

I hunted for years behind dogs that were staunch only. They would find and hold birds...for as long as it took me to get there, but once the bird hit the air, the dog was off to the races. I was, and still am... fine with that for the kind of hunting I do.

I do enjoy a dog that is steady to wing, and shot, and fall...but keeping dogs that way can be a gigantic PIA and can, for me, take some of the enjoyment out of the hunt, because you can never really get out of training mode and relax.

RayG

I would respectfully disagree. MH is not "all about obedience" but rather about having a well trained dog that works as part of a team and yet has the drive & finesse to be out on his own.

Please bear in mind that HTs are not entirely representative of a true hunting situation. They are, as the name implies, tests of the particular skills that the AKC deems essential to a "hunting dog". That includes being steady to wing & shot and not stealing point; NEITHER or which are behaviours a handler would want to reinforce.

[RichK]

Here's another video from today. This pup is a pleasure to work with.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152696236307482

[Ms. Cage]

Your video doesn't come up .

[RichK]

Should work now, I changed the privacy settings.

[RayGubernat]

Just curious Ray but why would you want a Senior over a Master for a hunting dog?

The way I read the requirements, the senior dog has everything I would need in a hunting dog. I cannot remember a single instance of having to have my dog on point or backing and having to stand there while the other dog made the retrieve.

As I said, I do not do hunt tests, so my perspective and perceptions may be inaccurate, but it seems to me that the Master level is more about obedience than hunting. Not that the extra obedience and polish are a bad thing...not at all. It is just that I can't honestly say I need all of that in a hunting dog.

I have to say that in the few(and it has been only a few) Master Hunter tests I have observed a fair number of dogs seemed to be much more controlled in their ground application, than I like. Not all... but a fair bunch. The Senior dogs I have seen (again only a few) seemed to be, as a generality, more free wheeling, which is more to my liking.

I hunted for years behind dogs that were staunch only. They would find and hold birds...for as long as it took me to get there, but once the bird hit the air, the dog was off to the races. I was, and still am... fine with that for the kind of hunting I do.

I do enjoy a dog that is steady to wing, and shot, and fall...but keeping dogs that way can be a gigantic PIA and can, for me, take some of the enjoyment out of the hunt, because you can never really get out of training mode and relax.

RayG

I would respectfully disagree. MH is not "all about obedience" but rather about having a well trained dog that works as part of a team and yet has the drive & finesse to be out on his own.

Please bear in mind that HTs are not entirely representative of a true hunting situation. They are, as the name implies, tests of the particular skills that the AKC deems essential to a "hunting dog". That includes being steady to wing & shot and not stealing point; NEITHER or which are behaviours a handler would want to reinforce.

SubMariner -

I was... and am saying, that I personally don't need a dog trained to the master hunter level to hunt with any more than I need a dog that is trained to AF or AKC field trial standards or Navhda Utility standards to hunt over. A dog trained to the senior hunter level would do very nicely for me. A dog that is AF spring derby broke would do fine for me also.

I appreciate a finished trained dog as much as anyone...maybe more than some...but I for one do not need a dog trained to that level to hunt over successfully and have a good time. FWIW, I have competed with all my dogs, so they are all dead broke and I keep them that way as best as I can.

I can say this with some level of certainty...If I did not field trial my dogs, I would not keep them steady to wing and shot. Just not worth it to me.

Everyone is free to hunt over what they like. What makes you happy is what counts. I like my dogs a little on the wild side. Maybe I'm a bit different, but that is what I like.

RayG

[Ms. Cage]

Should work now, I changed the privacy settings.

Nice point, show us more!!!

[woodsway]

We done a lot of Setters in JH and enjoy and support the different groups no problem...JH is fun to see if your pup is doing what a bird dog should do to a certain point have fun enjoy it...When we got into SH the dogs have to be steady to wing shot and fall better not move a leg, honor another dog retrieve to hand and so on..It goes from relax to making your dog a robot in the next level and then Masters you have to get all 8s and more stuff your dog has to handle...So enjoy your dog and hunt and have fun no matter what you do...