Tips any any advice requested by a newbie.

Elmer · Post by **Elmer** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:04 pm

I'm a retired US Army first sergeant who is teaching school in Springfield, Missouri, I’ve got a small SpEd classroom for emotionally disturbed teens on the campus of Boys and Girls Town. I will be retiring completely in the next year or 2 and would like to train up a hunting dog. I grew up on a northern Iowa farm and have had dogs all my life, but I've never had a hunting dog, nor have I ever trained one, in fact I’ve never even hunted with one. I’ve done a quite a bit of researching and like the Small Munsterlander for what I want to do. Any comments on that choice are welcome.

40 years ago I was a good wingshot on pheasants back home and on Black Hills grouse. I’ve purchased a shotgun and am shooting trap, getting back into the mode. I want a dog for upland hunting but maybe also waterfowling if I get into that, I don’t know now. I’m 62, I don’t need a big running, far ranging dog (and I’m so new at this that I don’t know if that comes from breeding or training). I want a dog that will be quiet and easy going around the house. I want a bright dog who will hang in there and learn even if I’m not the slickest teacher in the world this first time around. And I want a male. I plan to hunt and to participate in NAVHDA activities and earn some of their recognitions. Sounds like a lot, but I don’t sit and watch TV too well, and you can only chase the old lady around the table so many times.

I have a request, there are about a million books and DVDs out there on training hunting dogs, does anyone have any recommendations or favorites that might help a newbie? Keep in mind total greenness. Or does anyone have any other tips to help get someone started?

Lastly, anyone out there from the Springfield MO area? I’ll buy you dinner to pick your brain.

Good to be here. Now I shall get off the soapbox, shut up, and listen.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:04 pm

Elmer -

It sounds like you are looking for a pointing type dog and probably either a shorthair or wirehair.

My go to book is Training Pointing Dogs by Paul Long. It is dated but the methods described in the book work very well for the one dog owner/trainer. It is short, sweet and straight to the point. I like it because it tells you what you should do and why. It also tells you the things you should not do.
Then later on in the book it tells you how to fix the things that happened because you did one or more of the things he told you not to do in the first place. Mr. Long not only knew dogs...he knew people.

I also like Wing and Shot by Whele. It is a good read and has some good thoughts. Mr. Whele loses no opportunity to impress the reader with how wonderful his dog and kennel were(he was a masterful salesman), but it still has a lot of good info.

I have not read it but I have heard that the Navhda green book is a solid training manual.. If you are thinking of Navhda type testing, it is probably something you should read in any case.

As far as methods are concerned I like Mark Payton's book. There are often several ways to go from here to there with a bird dog and Mr.Payton describes many of the various methods. Sometimes the method needs to be varied because the dog is not catching on and sometimes the method needs to be varied because the trainer is uncomfortable or unskilled in its execution.

I have read several dozen books and have found things in each of them, but the best advice I can give you is to read a bunch of things check out a couple of videos(I hear Perfect Start /Finish is VERY good) and pick a method that suits you, your temperament, your personality.

Then, each time you go out to your dog...make a plan. think about what you want to do and how you are going to make it happen... EVERY TIME. Decide what you are going to do and just how you are going to do it.

Plan your work and then go out and work your plan.

There are some pretty fair dog people on this board. Ask questions. When something is not working, or you think it is not working...don't wait...ask. That's what we are here for... to help and to be helped.

RayG

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:30 pm

Hello Elmer, and welcome to the forum! When you do take the plunge and get a pup, do yourself and puppy a favor by joining a local NAVHDA chapter. IMO, this would be the single best thing you could do for the venues you are interested in and you would get valuable advise and hands on training tips from knowledgeable people who share the same interests as you. As far as breed, I think a well bred "SM" would serve you well. As Ray said, a Wirehair would be another great choice from what you have said. Just do your home work and research breeders in order to find some who breed for the traits you want in a dog. NAVHDA breeders is where I would start looking if it were me.

Good luck,
Charlie

Gooseman07 · Post by **Gooseman07** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:31 pm

I don't read books well (meaning I start, get through a chapter, maybe two then it collects dust) so I can't give any good recommendations on books.

I will say that if you are planning to do NAVHDA, go visit a training day or few before you get a pup and they can help you and will help you when you get your pup. NAVHDA people are the most willing to help train that I've dealt with.

The range of the dog, as far as I can tell is a little of both, breeding and training. Most if not all NAVHDA breeders breed for a short, foot hunters dog. If your pup has the drive to get out, great, that's what you want, independence, and then I would say you want to reign that in a little with cooperation to get them to the distance you want them.

I don't live in MO, but come out to st Louis occasionally for work, not sure how far that is from you but if you would want to PM me and talk on the phone, id be happy to help in any way I can.

JD

Fun dog · Post by **Fun dog** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:13 pm

You can't go wrong with the perfect start/perfect finish DVD. Even a novice like me was able to produce a well trained dog by using those. Have fun.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:46 am

Elmer, I'm in Seneca, just south of Joplin. In fact, I work in Joplin and chase birds at Bois D'Arc, just outside of Springfield. Drop me a line at powerdogsupply@yahoo.com or give me a ring. 417-776-7288. I've got 240 acres, plenty of pigeons and always have my hands on a dog. Anytime you want to come out or just want to talk birddogs, give me a shout.

And, if you're ever in Joplin, feel free to let me know so you can buy me lunch... or, uh, pick my brain.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:08 pm

There's a number of good books out there. I find some that other people like don't work for me, the has to connect with the reader and that doesn't always happen. Doesn't mean the books not, just that the style don't fit certain individuals. Your gonna find that you either buy them through sporting dog supply's of beat your head against the wall looking for them locally. Gun Dog Supply and Lion Country are good place's to start. Find both on line. I think Gun Dog Supply own's this site! Both are good to do business with.

Even before you get a pup, start going to function's like the NAVDA and AKC pointing dog test's. For what your looking for AKC and AF trials probably won't appeal to you unless they are walking trials. Good place to go watch dog's and get an idea of what the different breed's do is NSTRA, National Shoot to Retrieve. Keep in mind at the trial venues, AKC, AF and NSTRA, these are competitive programs. You have to look for something that appeals to you, I suspect you'll know it when you see it, you might not know why but it'll stick out in your mind. What you don't find much of at these venues is the type dog you think you'd like to get. Think that will have to come from NAVDA. I know nothing about NAVDA other than what I've read but a lot of people really like it. My idea of NAVDA is that it leans much more toward the hunting dog than trials do. When thing's get competative good dog work is not always appreciated!

I haven't watched a lot of videos on dog training. Those I have watched, it seemed to me that the trainer's making them were much better at training dogs than making video's. Not that their program isn't any good but you either see to much of their face and not what the hands are doing or the ramble on about this that or the other. I don't know if it's a book or a video, but one of these days I'm going to get "Training With Mo" x Maurice Lindsey. I hear nothing but good about it.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:57 pm

"Training with MO" is a good book and a good training program. It just doesn't fit my style of training but that is just me. I really like Paul Long's book that Ray mentioned but as he said, it is dated and some of his techniques are more harsh than we need to use today. But as long as you keep that in mind, Paul really knew dogs and had a good program IMO.

Charlie

Elmer · Post by **Elmer** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:24 am

Thank you all for your advice. I will try to use it wisely. Good to be here.

Gun Dog Forum