When to introduce "whoa"

[Coach529]

My 5 month old Gordon is starting to point fairly consistantly, so I was curious if it was too early to start "whoa" training her, and what is everybodies opinion on how to go about it?

Thanks in advance for the help!!

[jbellflyman]

I am also wondering the same thing. thx for posting the question Coach. when is the right time for whoa training and how do you go about it?

[glk7243]

You can start now for sure, but, it is not a force pressure kind of thing.
You can walk with the dog and stop and say whoa. Keep repeating and pretty soon you will be able to say whoa while you are walking and the dog will stop in its own.
You can hold the dog back before he dives into his food and say whoa. Each time making him wait a little longer. These are slow as you go lessons. These are just the beginning steps of teaching a dog to whoa on command. Making them do it in a wild bird hunting scenario is a whole different kettle of fish.
It reminds me of the guy a few years ago that had a nice looking new bird dog pup that he took out in the park every day teaching it to whoa. Like most he tried to rush the process and would get frustrated with the dog and put too much pressure on it. Eventually the dog would end up cowering or rolling over not knowing what the owner wanted. One day as he was leaving I asked him how his dog was working out. He shrugged and said not very good. I asked how she was on birds, he said he had only had her out once all year. The moral to the story is...................... if he would have spent all that time letting the dog run out in the hills and find birds he would probably would have a nice little dog. Providing he would have kept his mouth shut.
If it is a well bred bird dog it knows a lot more about finding birds than you. If you want a hunting dog take it hunting.
Regards
Gary

[Higgins]

Has your pup been around many birds yet? I think that's more important at this stage than a whoa command. In our training, we don't teach whoa around birds. Don't need it. Better for the birds to teach her to be steady. Much more natural and brings out all the dogs style and intensity.

Some clients want their dog to know a stop (whoa command) so they can stop them in the field, but it has nothing to do with birds.

Brad Higgins
www.higginsgundogs.com

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

Where obedience is separate training from birdwork, I would tell you to wait. A dog that is 5 months is most often too young and inexperienced to do much formal training imho. I'd look at this dog specifically, and not go by age. I'd look at the dog's maturity, how bold and independent this particular dog is, consider if the dog is ready for this step, still considering the particular breed, lineage, experience, etc. I typically start light whoa work on dogs around 7 to 8 months. However, if I have an immature dog, one who seems to need some bolding up, I will let the dog have its first season, then start the yardwork right after season. I can typically put whoa and heel on a dog in a month or so, introduce the collar, start dropping pigeons, get the dog holding his birds hunting broke, in around 3 months, with no pressure.

If the dog is mature, then I'd tell you to put a pinch collar on the dog, walk him thru the neighborhood 10 minutes and do whoa and heel, a few times a week. GO SLOW!! Read the dog. If the dog is cowering, overly confused, slumping,etc. then back off.

I may be seeming to contradict myself in each paragraph. But, I find it difficult to give advice on a dog I don't know. I know of one pro up north who breaks all dogs at 8 months. Where he's had plenty of Master Hunters, VCs, he's had relatively few Field Champions in percentage terms. IMHO, he takes too much out of them too early and doesn't allow the dogs to really get their independence before putting the process on them. This is NOT to say you want a field trial champion. However, some dogs, some breeds, could use additional independence and boldness just to be funtional hunting dogs IMHO. I see far too many Weims, Gordons, Brits, show EPs, Viszlas, show GSPs, who sure could have used additional fun bird work and fun running at a young age.

[PAHunter]

Coach,

I started my DD on whoa at ten weeks on the training table using treats and he caught on very quickly. Now he's 9 months and I'd say he' 90 percent in a none hunting situation. The other 10 percent are the times when I get him to break on purpose to make a correction. In a hunting situation I use it when he's nearing a road or I want him to stop while the guy's and I are BSing. As far a using it around birds, I have the philosophy that you should hunt them for a year without using it, for a young dog if you use to much control in hunting situation you can lose intensity. Then if taught and done right you shouldnt have any problems.

[original mngsp]

It all depends on the dog to a certain degree. If in doubt wait.

I dont think it to out of line starting easy whoa work around 6-8 months on most GSP, some breeds such as vizslas and some gordons you may want to wait longer on. And when doing the beginning whoa work, by all means keep it seperate from birds. I find nothing more saddening than a handler in a JH test hollering WHOA at thier young dog when it is in full chase of a bird, then keep hollering and hollering. All that is being tought there is that there is no reprecussion for the dog because of ignoring commands.

Blake. I'm sure I know how the pro is you are talking about. It has been explained to me that he does this on dogs that share a certain sire, as if you wait longer you tend to have renegades on your hands. I have had personal experiences with one such litter where the owners waited until between 12-24 months to break thier dogs, and guess what....harded headed SOB's that often time turn into 100% renegades while being hunted.

[Coach529]

Thanks for the advice guys.

[tailcrackin]

why do you feel you have to teach whoa?? why not teach respect of the bird and here?? dogs doin fine now...why fix whats not broke?

[ezzy333]

I teach Whoa so I can stop the dog when I need to. Has little to do with a bird. May just be a road or a barb wire fence that I don't want them running into.

Ezzy