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whoa training ....why is it so important?

whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby dottie » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:42 pm

I need some help with the training of whoa. My Brittany will in yard/ field .....whoa in about 6 steps / that is while running .... and at a distance .....is this typical?
Zippy will successfully whoa 8 of 10 times in a practice session. His only training for whoa has been with positive reward. When I make any attempt to correct him for failing to whoa on my command he goes down.
He also knows the commands sit and down ( from a distance) which i taught before i realized these commands should probably be taught after whoa....... so is he still a bit confused about whoa?
Actually i need to understand more about this command. Why is it so important? How often is it actually used? When and how do i correct in the future ? If he is steady on point ... do i use it in any way ?
Is whoa to a pointer like hup is to a flusher ?
As everyone can see i am a total novice here, just asking questions to learn.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Sharon » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:10 pm

I need some help with the training of whoa. My Brittany will in yard/ field .....whoa in about 6 steps / that is while running .... and at a distance .....is this typical?
Depends on the age of your dog. A well trained dog will whoa/hup in the field, immediately by 2+- years old.

Zippy will successfully whoa 8 of 10 times in a practice session. His only training for whoa has been with positive reward. When I make any attempt to correct him for failing to whoa on my command he goes down.

He is either a soft dog or you are correcting him too harshly. How do you correct him?
Whoa with birds in front , in the yard for training purposes.


Why is it so important? How often is it actually used? When and how do i correct in the future ? If he is steady on point ... do i use it in any way ?

Very important. What will you do when hunting and the dog doesn't stop on point and hold it? You will use the whoa command until you transition to the e collar , and even instead of the e collar sometimes.
If he is steady no need for any correction.
You also want him holding point so you don't accidently shoot him when a big pheasant for example jumps up in front of him and he jumps.



Good questions. :) ( We're talking about a pointing breed.)

some reading:
https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... hTgcqF2xyw
Last edited by Sharon on Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Francois P vd Walt » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:29 pm

Is it not to get the dog steady on point at first and stop him from chasing we in SA use the sit command to stop and control the dogs. The main reason for the whoa command I believe is to improve on the style of dog when they on birds, some say a standing dog looks better it is very much the same to me as a hunter. Some teach heir dogs to drop on shot others sit and here whoa can help again if your dog knows the command. The aim of a command is to be consistent in training until the dog understands it another thing to remember what works on one dog does not work on all dogs. If I was you I would choose a command your dog understands best and stay with it, there is no right and no wrong in dogs the most important is you must be happy with your dog! Remember to have fun with your dog a well trained dog is worth ten times it's weight in gold.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby deseeker » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:24 pm

Whoa is very important for dog safety as well---what are you going to do if he is headed for a road with traffic coming or running towards a barbed wire fence. They have to whoa immediately EVERYTIME or they can be at risk :!: :!:
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby birddogger » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:28 pm

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that it is important for safety reasons. It has saved a dog's life a couple of times for me.

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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby ezzy333 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:54 pm

Did you ever drive a car without brakes?
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby MJB64 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:58 am

ezzy333 wrote:Did you ever drive a car without brakes?


A smart aleck response to an admitted novice. Nice job.

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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby mm » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:35 am

I don't use it when dogs are on point, I don't talk to them on point. I use it at other times as said for safety , or sometimes when hunting to stop the dog so I can catch up. One thing I don't use is the command whoa I use a different word. I don't like that word because at a trial every other handler is screaming it over the whole place. I have also heard of scouts whoaing an opposing dog if they get near it alone.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby shags » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:24 am

OP,
As Ezzie said, the whoa command is the brakes. You use it whenever you want the dog to stop. It's up to you how you want to adjust those brakes. For some folks, mushy brakes with a rolling stop is fine; others require very touchy ones that will put them through the windshield so to speak. To get advice that will be most useful to you, explain what your plans are for your dog. Do you want a personal hunting companion and not require a perfectly trained, dead-broke dog? Do you plan to test at a basic level where training is required but need not be super precise? Do you want to test at upper levels or trial, where the dog's performance needs to be near flawless? For example, as a personal gundog, you probably would want your dog to turn and mark the fall of a bird, whereas in gundog stake at a Brittany trial you wouldn't want your dog to move so much as an eyelid (at least that's how it is in my area).

Once you decide that, find a way to observe that particular activity with dogs trained to the required level so you can understand how and why commands/actions are used. Training is much easier if it follows a flow of development rather that becoming a series of unrelated commands and tasks that don't make sense to you or the dog.

Good luck with your dog; enjoy the journey.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Mumpy » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:29 pm

There are obviously more reasons why Whoa is important but I'd like to share a short story and how I'm so glad I trained Whoa at an early age (16 weeks)

I took Knox on his first run with me when he was about 4.5 months old and we're running along side the road that I've always ran on. It's not super busy but a car will pass by about once every 10 or so seconds. Around the turn around point I'm running with Knox and there is a guard rail approaching. When we reach the guard rail he runs on the left of the rail and I run on the right side. The leash catches the guard rail, spins Knox under and through the other side with the leash flipping out of my hand and Knox goes directly toward the oncoming traffic and I yell WHOA!

He stopped on a dime at the roads edge, I picked up the leash and thanked god I taught him that command.

It's also helpful after he's pointed a bird and the bird starts to walk away, hehe.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby DonF » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:16 pm

lot of people don't teach whoa and get along fine without it. I do teach it. It's a control command. Like the guy running with his dog, I had that command save a dog for me years ago from traffic. Then five or six years ago got another stopped before it got into a busy intersection. Her'd escaped the back yard where I was visiting. I don't whoa a dog onto a bird but, a dog well along will get a caution if it blinks on a bird. Whoa must not mean bird's. It means only one thing, "stop and stand still". A dog stopped and standing still is back under control. It is a control command.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Becassier » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:43 pm

Why are you training "Whoa"? What are your goals? Why are you using the word Whoa?

It is not my intention to say that training a dog to whoa is wrong, if your method of choice is based on Whoa training then use it. . But to imply that you have to train Whoa or run the risk of not being able to control or hunt your dog, similar to driving your car without breaks is wrong. You cannot drive a car without breaks for legal and safety reasons. Using Whoa IMO is faster, but faster is not always better in the long run. It has been 5 years, 4 hunting seasons since we took the “Whoa” word out of our training, and we don’t miss it a bit. We are hunting 7 dogs this year ranging from 1 ½ years to 11 and never used it, and yes we can stop our dogs if need be. Our method of training includes their name, “here” (adjust or come around, switching directions) “Come” (get your butt back to me, recall), stay, heal and a whistle at times, the most important command is LEAVE IT. These commands are the most commonly used phrases by owners. Assuming the dog possess a well balance temperament, has been allowed to developed properly, and hasn’t been allowed to form bad habits. In respect to safety, what can I not accomplish with my words that Whoa can?

[b]Actually i need to understand more about this command. Why is it so important?IMO Whoa, is the most miss used and over used word in training

Question: Would you not hunt behind a highly skilled dog, because the handler does not use the word Whoa? I think not. I however, would not ride in a car without breaks.
Last edited by Becassier on Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby DonF » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:46 am

What's the difference between "whoa" and "stay"? Both control commands.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby shags » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:26 am

Anyone can use whatever words for commands they choose. If taught to do it, a dog will respond the same way to "whoa", "stay", "pot roast", or "airplane". It doesn't matter to the dog.
Having good 'brakes' on a pointing dog is important, especially one that ranges beyond spittin' distance. Suppose your dog somehow manages to cross a road with moderate traffic. Will you risk your "here" or "come" to have him return to you? Or would it be safer to whoa the dog, hve him stand still on the other side until you can cross and collect him?

The whoa command has been taught for a long long time by many many trainer/handler. Its uses vary with venue. It can be a safety net. It can be a convenience. Some people use it a lot, some rarely use it. But it's a command with a purpose.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Becassier » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:40 am

DonF wrote:What's the difference between "whoa" and "stay"? Both control commands.


In the dogs world absolutely nothing.. Its how we use or misuse them and whether your dogs understand the words.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby bhulisa » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:32 am

Whether it's "whoa", "stay", "sit" or "down", the most important thing is consistency of use and consistency of response. The dog should do this immediately, and you should work toward that.

Your perfection of whatever command you choose (whoa, stay, sit, down) should be done in close quarters before expecting the same result at distance. Put your dog back on the checkcord or lead and perfect the command close to you before moving to distance - and then only increase the distance slowly. Reward or correct immediately depending on the response! Your timing must be good for the dog's timing to be good.

Be patient and if your dog tries to lay down or sit, simply raise the hindquarters and praise. If you keep doing this at distance now, you will have to move toward the dog quickly for a correction, and this can be threatening, so begin with the dog on heel at your side until you make progress. Again, with patience the dog will understand. If as you progress, the dog sometimes sits or lays down, don't worry too much, and do not praise. It is very unlikely that the dog will do that once you start working birds - it will come right.

As F vd Walt said, here in SA most people teach their dog to sit for the distance control, and they even sit to flush. They almost never sit or lay down on point, and still exhibit nice style when pointing. So continue to work on a better whoa response and don't stress too much if you get the occasional sit or down!

Good luck, Trudi
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby bhulisa » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:06 am

It might also help to use a flank hitch, sort of suitcase handle style when he is near you on lead/checkcord. This will help you keep the dog's rear up and will get him used to pressure on his flank as well - which you'll be using when you raise his hindquarters. It's important that he doesn't view this as a correction, so be gentle and patient. Did I say patient again :) I don't have a photo, but you can do a search or maybe one of our posters has a photo?

Part of your problem may also be getting a good response when your dog is moving faster. So you need to start moving faster :) even with him on heel, you can work towards an immediate whoa while you are moving fast or running. If you work towards being able to get him to whoa quickly, while you are moving fast (fast trot), you should make progress. At first you will stop with him, later work towards getting him to whoa immediately while you keep running on past him. When you can do this, you can move to distance work, but again, build distance slowly.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby DonF » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:31 am

Years ago I recall reading something about Harold Ray and whoa training. He also used the flank lead. As I recall it was really his check cord taken back and around the flank. When he would give the whoa command, he did hold the dog up. One photo in it showed him looping the hand held part over an object fixed to a tree. I also recall hearing that a good part of his success was actually due to his former wife, Sherri Ray Ebert. Weather she used the same method or not I don't know but i do know that now she has a video on whoa breaking using a barrel. I saw a copy, Gertie has it, and it is the best whoa breaking video I've ever seen. I use the original Delmar Smith whoa post method. I have changed only one thing over the years, I eliminated the leather pinch collar and use either a chain slip or more often now, a second nylon dog collar. I have fooled a bit with my new pup with the heel and whoa method. Has it's good point's I think. I did it just like I was obedience training the pup but used whoa instead of sit. I also didn't jerk up the first few time's I used the whoa command. I watched that done on a different tape and the dog reacted negatively to it, immediately went down about half way. But I had a problem in stopping the pup when he wasn't right next to me so I reverted to the whoa post to finish it off. I do not put an e-collar on the flank. I never need it before and see no reason to incorporate it not; if it works, don't fix it! On the dog going down, It normally would only happen early on with the whoa post, hasn't happened with the heel and whoa but, sample of one! On the whoa post I use a 20' check cord and a 6' lead made of the same material with the snap tied on with the same bowline as on the check cord. So when I start I'm fairly close to the dog when it's at the end of the long cc and if it lays down, I slide a toe under it's flank and gently lift it. Only takes a few times and that is done. I had a friend years ago that said he dog was sitting every time he gave her the whoa command. Took about ten min on the cc to fix that problem. I'd whoa her and sure enough, down she'd go. As she started down, I lifted the cc in my hand and gently pulled her toward me. It got her up and before she could step I'd drop the hand and whoa her again. She caught on very fast and 10 min and it was done.

But I think the op was asking about the purpose of the whoa and that is simple, it's control. It is not used to stop a dog on a bird but when a dog is on the bird, if whoa is already finished well, the dog start's to move and a gentle whoa stop's it. The dog chase's after the flush and it's whoa broke, a whoa should stop the dog. on stopping the chase, I saw a very good tape, yep tape, on using the e-collar to stop the dog. Greg something from Oklahoma, can't remember the last name. anyway, the trick was to let the chase get underway, important to let it get underway! Then after the dog has gone maybe 20', start nicking the dog until the chase ends. the idea is that letting the chase get going, the dog won't necessarily associate it with the bird and start blinking the bird. What happen's is the dog goes with the bird a bit and then start's getting nic's with a low setting on the e-collar until it breaks off the chase, become's something the dog ran into after the chase was started and wasn't punishment as the nic is low level. Very important not to say anything to the dog when doing this, dog has to associate the nic with running into a invisible electric fence.

it is all about a measure of control for the dog.
Last edited by DonF on Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Sharon » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:47 pm

Great post . Saving that one. Thanks.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby dottie » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:34 pm

Is this a great forum/site or what!!!
I have so much information to work with , THANKS everyone!
Now i will try to take what everyone has shared with me and develop Zippy's response to the whoa command.
Thanks
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby AZ Brittany Guy » Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:04 am

MJB64 wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Did you ever drive a car without brakes?


A smart aleck response to an admitted novice. Nice job.

Mike


I didn't take it that way. It was just an analogy. :D
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby setterpoint » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:14 pm

I teach whoa to my dogs hears a good reason to whoa. a dog is on point in heavy cover my dog comes in up wind hes not going to see the other dog on point hes not going to smell the bird in time. I can say whoa the dog stops you can still kill the bird. your buddy will be glad you took the time to teach whoa
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Big bloc » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:34 am

I use it for the simple fact I want my dog to stop on command. We were hunting the other day close to a dirt road I was about 15 yards from road when a truck was coming. I use the command STOP with a hand signal at a distance. She stop in her tracks. The truck seen us and slowed down anyway, but that don't always happens. My buddy's said I like that
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby blanked » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:12 am

Wild birds teach whoa for pointing and holding. For safety the come or hear command works for all the other breeds. Why does a pointer have to be different
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby DonF » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:18 am

Big bloc wrote:I use it for the simple fact I want my dog to stop on command. We were hunting the other day close to a dirt road I was about 15 yards from road when a truck was coming. I use the command STOP with a hand signal at a distance. She stop in her tracks. The truck seen us and slowed down anyway, but that don't always happens. My buddy's said I like that


Ugly thing. I've seen to many time's where the vehicle doesn't slow down or move. Simply blow the horn and keep going. I don't know if they are a-holes or just stupid.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Fun dog » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:55 pm

I vote for stupid.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby birddogger » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:10 pm

blanked wrote:Wild birds teach whoa for pointing and holding. For safety the come or hear command works for all the other breeds. Why does a pointer have to be different

There are times when you need the dog to stop and stand still instead of running to you. The breed has nothing to do with it when we are talking about keeping a dog out of trouble.

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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby blanked » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:37 pm

birddogger wrote:
blanked wrote:Wild birds teach whoa for pointing and holding. For safety the come or hear command works for all the other breeds. Why does a pointer have to be different

There are times when you need the dog to stop and stand still instead of running to you. The breed has nothing to do with it when we are talking about keeping a dog out of trouble.

Charlie



Those who claim whoa is for safety are the ones who are saying only the pointing breeds are safe, not me. I don't get it

Personally I think back in the day, whoa was such an over used method ON BIRDS that today's training methods have eliminated a majority of the need for it. But some people today who still claim whoa is the most important part of training are still trying to justify the importance for it. So they throw in the safety to justify it. Don't get me wrong it still has some merit where it can be used but it's such a small factor it is no way considered a major part anymore
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby ezzy333 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:07 pm

blanked wrote:
birddogger wrote:
blanked wrote:Wild birds teach whoa for pointing and holding. For safety the come or hear command works for all the other breeds. Why does a pointer have to be different

There are times when you need the dog to stop and stand still instead of running to you. The breed has nothing to do with it when we are talking about keeping a dog out of trouble.

Charlie



Those who claim whoa is for safety are the ones who are saying only the pointing breeds are safe, not me. I don't get it

Personally I think back in the day, whoa was such an over used method ON BIRDS that today's training methods have eliminated a majority of the need for it. But some people today who still claim whoa is the most important part of training are still trying to justify the importance for it. So they throw in the safety to justify it. Don't get me wrong it still has some merit where it can be used but it's such a small factor it is no way considered a major part anymore
You forgot to add "in your opinion". That would make it much easier to believe.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby birddogger » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:57 am

I am not posting on this thread to argue with anyone. I was simply relating my thoughts and experience on this subject the OP. It is just another obedience command and I just gave an example of how useful/important it can be. I didn't make it up or exaggerate it. That being said, I think most dog owners, regardless of the breed, who do obedience training, teach this command. They just use a different word for the command, such as stay, sit, etc. And BTW, I will use it around birds too if needed (I won't whoa them into a point). Anyway, if a person doesn't want it to be one of their obedience commands or doesn't see the need for it, don't teach it. It makes me no difference whatsoever.

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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Becassier » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:47 am

ezzy333 wrote:Did you ever drive a car without brakes?


Becassier wrote:Why are you training "Whoa"? What are your goals? Why are you using the word Whoa?

It is not my intention to say that training a dog to whoa is wrong, if your method of choice is based on Whoa training then use it. . But to imply that you have to train Whoa or run the risk of not being able to control or hunt your dog, similar to driving your car without breaks is wrong. You cannot drive a car without breaks for legal and safety reasons. Using Whoa IMO is faster, but faster is not always better in the long run. It has been 5 years, 4 hunting seasons since we took the “Whoa” word out of our training, and we don’t miss it a bit. We are hunting 7 dogs this year ranging from 1 ½ years to 11 and never used it, and yes we can stop our dogs if need be. Our method of training includes their name, “here” (adjust or come around, switching directions) “Come” (get your butt back to me, recall), stay, heal and a whistle at times, the most important command is LEAVE IT. These commands are the most commonly used phrases by owners. Assuming the dog possess a well balance temperament, has been allowed to developed properly, and hasn’t been allowed to form bad habits. In respect to safety, what can I not accomplish with my words that Whoa can?

blanked wrote:
Those who claim whoa is for safety are the ones who are saying only the pointing breeds are safe, not me. I don't get it

Personally I think back in the day, whoa was such an over used method ON BIRDS that today's training methods have eliminated a majority of the need for it. But some people today who still claim whoa is the most important part of training are still trying to justify the importance for it. So they throw in the safety to justify it. Don't get me wrong it still has some merit where it can be used but it's such a small factor it is no way considered a major part anymore


ezzy333 wrote: You forgot to add "in your opinion". That would make it much easier to believe.


If you look back on ezzy333 first quote they did not use IMO, I think it is a given that all of us are expressing our own opinions.
When (if)we decide to teach Whoa it is not until after formal training is complete (manors on game) and I agree with "Blanked" statement 100%. We've all seen it or heard it people training their dogs yelling WHOA with the dog still creeping up on the bird..
Please view link below:
http://youtu.be/hBhlQgvHmQ0
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby DonF » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:19 am

blanked wrote:Wild birds teach whoa for pointing and holding. For safety the come or hear command works for all the other breeds. Why does a pointer have to be different


Let's see, it the spaniel world, the term for whoa is hup! In the retriever world I don't know what it is but I'm sure its there. Otherwise how does a handler stop a dog to give it direction. The lady that taught me obedience training would use her UD Doberman to demonstrait things. One evening she took it through a complete exceise, probably to get our attention. She took the dog completely around a square And stopped the dog in several place's. I don't recall the word she used anymore but it would be our version of whoa. I suggest if you don't want to use it, don't use it. But quit this distraction on the subject!

Wild birds do not teach whoa, they teach the dog how close it can get before the bird leaves!
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby gundogguy » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:23 pm

DonF wrote:
blanked wrote:Wild birds teach whoa for pointing and holding. For safety the come or hear command works for all the other breeds. Why does a pointer have to be different


Let's see, it the spaniel world, the term for whoa is hup! In the retriever world I don't know what it is but I'm sure its there.



In the spaniel world the hup command is an abbreviation for the command "Sit Up"
"Whoa" would be the command to "Stand and stay" or Stand still.
and in the retriever world the command Sit means "Sit
In essence all three commands ask the dog to transfer from a state of Drive or hunt to a state of "pack" or submission to the handler and await further orders from the home office.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby blanked » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:04 pm

Wild birds do not teach whoa, they teach the dog how close it can get before the bird leaves![/quote]

If this was the case your saying it's completely worthless to have a pointing dog range out of site since your not there to tell the dog to whoa?? It is very common for me to take up to 30 minutes to get to my dogs while the point and hold birds. I don't say a word except praise
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby gonehuntin' » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:57 pm

I'm sorry, I didn't read all the posts but a short answer to your question is that it is nothing more than a simple obedience command. Hup to a spaniel, sit to a retriever, whoa to a pointing dog. Whoa WILL save the dog's life one day. That's why it's important. It has little to do with birds although it can be useful when honoring or staunching on the flush.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Francois P vd Walt » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:29 pm

Hey Don super post! :)
Ditto Sharon this one can be kept.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Francois P vd Walt » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:34 pm

Big bloc wrote:I use it for the simple fact I want my dog to stop on command. We were hunting the other day close to a dirt road I was about 15 yards from road when a truck was coming. I use the command STOP with a hand signal at a distance. She stop in her tracks. The truck seen us and slowed down anyway, but that don't always happens. My buddy's said I like that


I like this!

Always nice to go hunting with guys that can handle their dogs
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby mm » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:37 am

Let me ask a question. Not trying to hijack this but its kinda on the subject and reading this brought it to mind. In a field trial is it allowed to whoa a dog into a back ? I have seen people whoa dogs already on point and I don't see a problem with that. But I have also seen people whoa there dogs as they come up to a dog already on point. To me it is unknown if the dog would back on its own without the whoa. He may have maybe the handler cant be quiet. But maybe he wont back and needs to be told whoa. I have not seen anyone picked up for this but I have had people scream whoa whoa at there dogs as it approached mine and I don't like it. I am talking field trial here.
mm
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Tooling » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:19 am

gonehuntin' wrote: Whoa WILL save the dog's life one day. That's why it's important.


yup
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Lucky Dog » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:30 pm

I must be dumb, I've had pointing dogs for almost 40 years and never had one that was whoa broke.
I'm surprised that all my dogs survived. :wink:
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby blanked » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:55 pm

Lucky Dog wrote:I must be dumb, I've had pointing dogs for almost 40 years and never had one that was whoa broke.
I'm surprised that all my dogs survived. :wink:



You took the words right out of my mouth
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Sharon » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:06 pm

mm wrote:Let me ask a question. Not trying to hijack this but its kinda on the subject and reading this brought it to mind. In a field trial is it allowed to whoa a dog into a back ? I have seen people whoa dogs already on point and I don't see a problem with that. But I have also seen people whoa there dogs as they come up to a dog already on point. To me it is unknown if the dog would back on its own without the whoa. He may have maybe the handler cant be quiet. But maybe he wont back and needs to be told whoa. I have not seen anyone picked up for this but I have had people scream whoa whoa at there dogs as it approached mine and I don't like it. I am talking field trial here.
mm


You can do that. Unlikely to place though. :)
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Tooling » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:08 pm

blanked wrote:
Lucky Dog wrote:I must be dumb, I've had pointing dogs for almost 40 years and never had one that was whoa broke.
I'm surprised that all my dogs survived. :wink:



You took the words right out of my mouth


No command for your dogs to stop and stop now?
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby blanked » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:06 pm

Tooling wrote:
blanked wrote:
Lucky Dog wrote:I must be dumb, I've had pointing dogs for almost 40 years and never had one that was whoa broke.
I'm surprised that all my dogs survived. :wink:



You took the words right out of my mouth


No command for your dogs to stop and stop now?


Yes but not to the point that all my dogs would have died early for not using it.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Tooling » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:20 pm

Point taken and I can't say that I've saved all of my dogs lives because they were taught to plant feet - that said, luck plays a part in that and amount of time spent in the field skews the percentages - I'm sure glad my dog knows it. You are by all means in the best position to know what will keep your dogs safe so if it works for you, more power to ya'

Dogs can't discern the dangers that ice present and I'm pretty sure they don't recognize harm straight ahead the way that their caregiver/protector can (whatever harm that may be)

All it takes is one time and -poof- your dog is harmed, or worse....I'll spend whatever time it takes to know my dog(s) know it in order to put the odds in their favor...and mine.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Lucky Dog » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:39 pm

Tooling wrote:
blanked wrote:
Lucky Dog wrote:I must be dumb, I've had pointing dogs for almost 40 years and never had one that was whoa broke.
I'm surprised that all my dogs survived. :wink:



You took the words right out of my mouth


No command for your dogs to stop and stop now?


I don't generally feel the need to command my dogs to stop and stop now.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby Tooling » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:03 pm

I don't generally feel the need to command my dogs to stop and stop now.


Yep, you said it..key word "generally"

I'm glad you have a Lucky Dog and hope it stays that way..I mean that. If you are looking to get into semantics and display bravado there are plenty here that will accommodate you.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby dottie » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:58 am

My thanks to everyone that offered an opinion and information to my original post. I have read and read this thread many times and i am still finding new ideas. I will continue to ask new questions and hope i do not wear out my welcome.
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby gonehuntin' » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:12 am

Don't worry about dogie, nobody even remembers the original question once they start arguing among themselves!!! :roll: :D
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Re: whoa training ....why is it so important?

Postby birddogger » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:28 am

The command in question is like a lot of things in life that is not needed until it is needed. As I stated in a previous post, It without doubt saved a dog's life twice over the years but make fun of it all you want. But because it has never happened to most of you, it is not needed unless of course there comes a time when it is needed. For example, I don't need anything for personal protection, until I need it. But this is not the only reason I teach it and I see no reason not to teach it during routine obedience training, unless obedience is not important to you. JMO.

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