New to training bird dogs!!

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:37 am

Hey there guys, so I am curious. Anyone here have any experience and/or tips for me? I am going to clicker train a bird dog. And I'd like to know if anyone has any helpful hints on how to. My pup is a 4 month old lab. Well bred. Beautiful little pup.

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gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:55 am

Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote:Hey there guys, so I am curious. Anyone here have any experience and/or tips for me? I am going to clicker train a bird dog. And I'd like to know if anyone has any helpful hints on how to. My pup is a 4 month old lab. Well bred. Beautiful little pup.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1418366247.128646.jpg

If it was me, I would spend a bit of time researching Operant Conditioning. Which quite a bit different than Classical conditioning.
There may be a few "Operants" here on this forum, however I would look for a group or forum that really specializes in this type of conditioning. If that was really and truly the direction I wanted to go. That would be the best "tip" I could offer.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:30 am

Their are a few pointing dog people around that use the Hickox training method which I think is an operant approach.

Try this link to see if it has anything that you think you can use.

http://www.georgehickox.com/about_georg ... icles.html

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:33 am

PS

you may want to pick up the book "Don't Shoot the Dog". I found it pretty dry and a tough read but it addresses your clicker requirement.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:36 am

Why are you set on clicker training?

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:51 am

Nice thanks az Brit. Haha. Sounds like my kind of book. Dry and tougher than a boot. Sounds like my wife... :O

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:53 am

And I like clicker training because training is much faster, may or may not stick better, but I know that it works very well. And plus, I hate ff. regardless of what anyone's got to say I just can't agree with forced fetch. I don't care if the dog would be happier if u pinched his ear, not gonna do that. But I want to start with a whistle after I get him trained to basic obedience.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:16 am

I think you would find an actual retriever program faster (and more effective) than clicker training. But if that is your choice, go for it. Not trying to shoot down clicker training or anything like that - its your dog. As for the whistle, the whistle is used during basic obedience. After all, it is just another cue for giving a command. Don't wait until the dog is trained completely to verbal. You can train them in synergy. There's ton of information on the web as well... don't get too tunnel visioned with training. Training a hunting dog, especially an effective retriever, is quite different than training your average companion dog. The same approaches won't necessarily work - your lab will have more energy and drive than the neighbor's shi tzu.

getzapped · Post by **getzapped** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:35 am

what exactly is a force fetch?

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:54 am

Clicker training is a great place to start and a good way to teach a command, but it has limitations. Modern e-collars allow you to enforce commands at a distance, a clicker will not get you dogs butt on the ground 100 yards out for a sit/whistle so they can take a cast. There is a perception that e-collars are nothing but cruel, but used correctly nothing could be further from the truth. And even though you are new to training they are easy to learn to use. And to put it into perspective I run a collar with 18 levels, Depending on the level of distraction I work from level 2-5 . With the collar in my hand I can hardly feel level 2.

Are you following any sort of training plan yet, if not google Evan Graham Smart Work (I am a pointer guy but I used his force fetch program) there are others. But you are way better off finding and following a plan, at least for your first dog. Youtube has snippets but only takes you so far.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:18 pm

Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote:And I like clicker training because training is much faster, may or may not stick better, but I know that it works very well. And plus, I hate ff. regardless of what anyone's got to say I just can't agree with forced fetch. I don't care if the dog would be happier if u pinched his ear, not gonna do that. But I want to start with a whistle after I get him trained to basic obedience.

Correct me if I am wrong but I get the impression that you are against corrections when it comes to training. If I am right, good luck with that!

Charlie

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:19 pm

Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote: But I want to start with a whistle after I get him trained to basic obedience.

Any videos on this?.
My pups start conditioning to the whistle at 5 weeks old, and it's not done until they are about 9 months old, But sure would like to cut that part out if I can ?
Thanks

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:57 pm

Theirs an older guy down in south eastern AZ that has been using the Hickox method for many years and has winning FT GSP's. He joked with me years ago saying "give me a clicker and 10 pounds of hot dogs and I will finish your dog". There is more that one method and they all can work if done right, I just don't use that method.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:33 am

There's more than one way to skin a cat my friend. I never said I don't correct him. I just don't believe in hurting and/or purposely making the dog comfortable to train him. It's called positive reinforcement. Look up chad Hines on YouTube guys for some videos on how to do it. He also has videos on how to train them to the collar after he uses the clicker.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:36 am

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:Theirs an older guy down in south eastern AZ that has been using the Hickox method for many years and has winning FT GSP's. He joked with me years ago saying "give me a clicker and 10 pounds of hot dogs and I will finish your dog". There is more that one method and they all can work if done right, I just don't use that method.

Yup! I know that you can train many ways. I prefer not to use aversive training. I love my puppy! I would like to train him to find out what I want not force him to do what I think he should do, when I think he should do it.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:40 am

getzapped wrote:what exactly is a force fetch?

Forced fetch is where u put 3 fingers under the collar and 2 on his ear, and you hold down a good amount of pressure and hold what u want him to bite/hold in front of him till he grabs it. Then u let off pressure. Once u do that a lot, then u move it farther away, repeat till he lunges for it or is trying to get it, once he has it, u release pressure.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:45 am

aulrich wrote:Clicker training is a great place to start and a good way to teach a command, but it has limitations. Modern e-collars allow you to enforce commands at a distance, a clicker will not get you dogs butt on the ground 100 yards out for a sit/whistle so they can take a cast. There is a perception that e-collars are nothing but cruel, but used correctly nothing could be further from the truth. And even though you are new to training they are easy to learn to use. And to put it into perspective I run a collar with 18 levels, Depending on the level of distraction I work from level 2-5 . With the collar in my hand I can hardly feel level 2.

Are you following any sort of training plan yet, if not google Evan Graham Smart Work (I am a pointer guy but I used his force fetch program) there are others. But you are way better off finding and following a plan, at least for your first dog. Youtube has snippets but only takes you so far.

I do like the collar, as far as u said, I like it. But my fiances grandpa has a 4 year old lab, who wasn't trained with clicker, or force fetch, and is trained better than most dogs I've seen. He doesn't use a collar. Just yell hunter and he's at ur feet in a second. He marks birds, swims all over, does whatever u ask. He goes out beyond sight when I don't have him stay close, if i whistle or say his name he's back. He heels when I say his name twice, etc etc. my point is, I'd do anything rather than use force fetch. I disagree with it. But I'm glad you found something that works for u. But I'm looking for what fits me. Haha and it's taking a while lol.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:47 am

polmaise wrote:
Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote: But I want to start with a whistle after I get him trained to basic obedience.
Any videos on this?.
My pups start conditioning to the whistle at 5 weeks old, and it's not done until they are about 9 months old, But sure would like to cut that part out if I can ?
Thanks

Look up chad Hines on YouTube. Look through his videos for the videos named step one, step two etc. very good videos. I was just hoping somebody would have more

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:51 am

If that's a lab pup, good luck with the clicker.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:26 pm

Haha thank you.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:27 pm

Honestly it doesn't matter the breed, clicker traing is pretty universal.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:43 pm

Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote:
getzapped wrote:what exactly is a force fetch?
Forced fetch is where u put 3 fingers under the collar and 2 on his ear, and you hold down a good amount of pressure and hold what u want him to bite/hold in front of him till he grabs it. Then u let off pressure. Once u do that a lot, then u move it farther away, repeat till he lunges for it or is trying to get it, once he has it, u release pressure.

That is a very poor explanation of force fetch and is not what it is

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:59 pm

Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote:
polmaise wrote:
Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote: But I want to start with a whistle after I get him trained to basic obedience.
Any videos on this?.
My pups start conditioning to the whistle at 5 weeks old, and it's not done until they are about 9 months old, But sure would like to cut that part out if I can ?
Thanks
Look up chad Hines on YouTube. Look through his videos for the videos named step one, step two etc. very good videos. I was just hoping somebody would have more

Perhaps there is no more?...Why not ask Chad Hines?

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:02 pm

Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote:
polmaise wrote:
Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote: But I want to start with a whistle after I get him trained to basic obedience.
Any videos on this?.
My pups start conditioning to the whistle at 5 weeks old, and it's not done until they are about 9 months old, But sure would like to cut that part out if I can ?
Thanks
Look up chad Hines on YouTube. Look through his videos for the videos named step one, step two etc. very good videos. I was just hoping somebody would have more

Dude, I'm one of the few on here who will tell you the truth and not sugar coat it. If you know so much about dog training and why a clicker is so much better, then why are you on here? Id love to see what your dog turns out to be after clicker training him as a retriever. Let me guess he's probably also a "British lab" from duck hill kennels and you read some other stupid propaganda about that junk?

Quick hint bud, you'll be laughed at hard core by anyone who truly trains retrievers as gun dogs or trial dogs with what you are suggesting and think you know. That's not an assumption, that's a fact. Go see what a true MH or HRCH retriever is, and then come back and tell me you plan on accomplishing that via a program one step away from petsmart obedience.

There is a rhyme and a reason why mike lardy, Joyce Aycock, Danny farmer, rick stawski, and Chris Aiken produce incredible retrievers and training programs. And it ain't cus they "don't love their dogs".

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:00 pm

I suggest the O.P. reads a few British retriever training books. He is unlikely to find any info on clicker training or on F.F. in most of them but we still manage to train labs to work. I agree that both F.F. and e-collars probably need to be used to train a retriever for American style trials , maybe they are not needed by most hunters however ? It is easily possible to get a well bred lab pup to retrieve without using F.F. or a clicker but if either of those two things floats your boat then go for it.

Bill T.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:51 pm

Yuma, I wish you the best of luck but I hope you start being a little more open minded to "aversive" training techniques. They are tried and true, and there are more resources than alternative methods.

Also, from your responses, it seems you don't fully understand ecollars, force fetch, or any other training that uses a physical stimulus. Maybe work with a group of people who know what they're doing, or consult with a pro to learn...

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:01 pm

Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote:There's more than one way to skin a cat my friend. I never said I don't correct him. I just don't believe in hurting and/or purposely making the dog comfortable to train him. It's called positive reinforcement. Look up chad Hines on YouTube guys for some videos on how to do it. He also has videos on how to train them to the collar after he uses the clicker.

You are correct, there is more than one way my friend, just as there is more than one way to raise a child but the final result can be drastically different. A lot of it has to do with the type of dog you are training and what he is to be used for. Of course you should use any method you prefer to use.

Charlie

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:26 pm

Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote:Honestly it doesn't matter the breed, clicker traing is pretty universal.

Let me know when you see a clicker dog compete successfully in an AKC field trial.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:56 pm

Come on guys. You are shooting Bluesky's opening sentence all to pieces. For you Yuma, you have the right to train however you like but you should understand what the likely outcome will be. Clicker training has worked well for obedience training where it was developed. There has not been much evidence of it working well for hunting dog training. There is an almost universal method used for retriever training and that is very powerful evidence that the method works and is better than any other type if you desire to have a dog trained to compete in trials. I do agree their are other methods that work quite well for upland as well as waterfowl hunting. But remember you are the one that asked for help or opinions, and you received just that but immediately stated you would not train that way based on some rather vague presumptions such as you love your dog too much to train like that. I think you will find it difficult to prove or convince anyone you love your dog more than the other experienced trainers who are giving you their answers. I personally am not a big fan of FF but will absolutely stick up for the e-collar as the most humane method as well as the best tool that has ever been advanced. I have seen the results of the obsession with positive training in both dogs and children and I am still looking for the superiority in the results in either but do find the inferior results that we read read about almost daily in the police reports as well as seeing them in the field with our dogs. Being a dog trainer or a parent does not equate to being the best friend, that's why they give them names of trainer and parent. And if you are good at those you will produce something that both you and your trainee will be best friends because of it.

JMO based on evidence we all see daily,

Ezzy

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:13 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Come on guys. You are shooting Bluesky's opening sentence all to pieces. For you Yuma, you have the right to train however you like but you should understand what the likely outcome will be. Clicker training has worked well for obedience training where it was developed. There has not been much evidence of it working well for hunting dog training. There is an almost universal method used for retriever training and that is very powerful evidence that the method works and is better than any other type if you desire to have a dog trained to compete in trials. I do agree their are other methods that work quite well for upland as well as waterfowl hunting. But remember you are the one that asked for help or opinions, and you received just that but immediately stated you would not train that way based on some rather vague presumptions such as you love your dog too much to train like that. I think you will find it difficult to prove or convince anyone you love your dog more than the other experienced trainers who are giving you their answers. I personally am not a big fan of FF but will absolutely stick up for the e-collar as the most humane method as well as the best tool that has ever been advanced. I have seen the results of the obsession with positive training in both dogs and children and I am still looking for the superiority in the results in either but do find the inferior results that we read read about almost daily in the police reports as well as seeing them in the field with our dogs. Being a dog trainer or a parent does not equate to being the best friend, that's why they give them names of trainer and parent. And if you are good at those you will produce something that both you and your trainee will be best friends because of it.

JMO based on evidence we all see daily,

Ezzy

Easy, come on you know it's my job around here to call a spade a spade and stir the pot occasionally...

But yeah I agree. It's just the cool hip thing to be "positive only" rather than actually good at training. Do t let the hipsters tell you otherwise. Just remember, this guy has a YouTube channel! No, not champion dogs, nor proven programs, but a YouTube channel! He must be legit!

Nutmeg247 · Post by **Nutmeg247** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:13 pm

First as a disclaimer: I myself am a one-owned-hunting-dog wonder, so take it fwiw.

I'd suggest the o.p. remember that "clicker training" doesn't have to be "positive only." The clicker is simply a marker for when the desired behavior is displayed. Some people cluck their tongue, some people say yes, etc. etc. and it can be useful teaching behaviors for a variety of training styles.

Even for trainers who try to use only positive reinforcement and negative punishment (timeouts, etc.), also remember that there is a difference from doing this as a training method, and the new agey/cultlike atmosphere around a lot of "R+" trainers.

R+/P- trainers seem to have done best at agility, struggle even in obedience relative to "traditional" trainers, and to have more trouble for things like field sports where the dog is further from the handler and the environment is more naturally distracting for the dog. I would be cautious about the tendency of many R+ trainers, out of enthusiasm, to oversell what that training approach has done. I say that as someone who does use a clicker and food regularly with my own dog and who does actively follow a couple R+ trainers' advice/blogs because I find it both helpful and interesting.

I'd also suggest figuring out what hunting you'll be doing. Steadiness for your retriever would be more of a premium in some cases than others, for instance, as would ensuring that your dog never refuses retrieves in some cases.

Not directed towards the o.p., but I'm also struck by how open the forum here is to different approaches. People speak their opinions, but don't try to prevent discussion of other training techniques. The new agey/cultlike side of R+ training often tries to forbid discussion of other approaches (or even outlaw some training tools) which wouldn't be cool even if they were delivering comparable training results. Confident people tend to allow discussion.

Nutmeg247 · Post by **Nutmeg247** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:49 am

Seems the o.p. is in far southwest AZ and wants a lab primarily as an upland flusher, and his new pup is apparently from here, http://www.lavishlabs.com/ .

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:37 am

I do believe upland flushers need to be under full control.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:05 pm

Bluesky2012 wrote: Easy, come on you know it's my job around here to call a spade a spade and stir the pot occasionally...

Oh Yea ?

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:18 pm

Nutmeg247 wrote:Seems the o.p. is in far southwest AZ and wants a lab primarily as an upland flusher, and his new pup is apparently from here,http://www.lavishlabs.com/ .

Oh no... Those dogs are show dogs. Not a single hunting title that I saw. And to top it off, they breed "charcoal labs" aka not a legitimate breeder, aka run! Dude if you seriously got a pup from them and desire a hunting dog, I'm sorry... You got scammed.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:58 pm

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet ?? Many proclaim themselves to be this type or that type of trainer but in my experience further investigation often leads me to come to the conclusion they just do the same things differently or call it something else. There have always been a wide range of methods and programmes and people who support them and others who criticise them. I know what has worked for me. It is a selection of techniques which suit the dog in front of me but always a consistent and progressive programme with each simple step repeated until the dog fully understands before moving on to the next step. No gimmicks, no treats, no lead pipes and no e-collars. I don't have a name for it but it works.
Some others around me call it 'Training'

DudeRN · Post by **DudeRN** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:33 pm

nice pup!

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:21 pm

Bluesky2012 wrote:
Nutmeg247 wrote:Seems the o.p. is in far southwest AZ and wants a lab primarily as an upland flusher, and his new pup is apparently from here,http://www.lavishlabs.com/ .

Oh no... Those dogs are show dogs. Not a single hunting title that I saw. And to top it off, they breed "charcoal labs" aka not a legitimate breeder, aka run! Dude if you seriously got a pup from them and desire a hunting dog, I'm sorry... You got scammed.

Well That sucks. Hey like I said I'm new to training a hunting dog. But on a side note, my grandparents got a poorly bred lab for 150 bucks from a backyard breeder (not recommending it obviously) and he's an awesome hunting dog.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:36 pm

Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote:
polmaise wrote:
Yuma.Az.Hunter wrote: But I want to start with a whistle after I get him trained to basic obedience.
Any videos on this?.
My pups start conditioning to the whistle at 5 weeks old, and it's not done until they are about 9 months old, But sure would like to cut that part out if I can ?
Thanks
Look up chad Hines on YouTube. Look through his videos for the videos named step one, step two etc. very good videos. I was just hoping somebody would have more

Ok for one thing, I never stated people who use force fetch don't love their dog, and another, just because you are afraid to change the way you train your dogs does not mean you should throw me under the bus for exploring other options. If the only reason you commented on here was to be a jerk and call me out for not wanting to train a dog the way YOU believe it should be done, your welcome, and in fact encouraged to get the heck off of this post. I also never stated that clicker training is way better. It's how id prefer to do it. If I don't produce a great hunting dog I will try the "tried and true". I am not an idiot, I understand that the old way works. I never said different. It's obvious that it works from how many people use it, and how much success they have had. And honestly idk what a British lab is. Haha. Again, I'm new, not a tried and true trainer. I'm 22. So give me a break. I asked for advice on clicker training not a frontal assault of BS. and anybody that "laughs at me hardcore" won't be hanging around me long after they do. I'm not the kind of person to just let people blatantly disrespect me. State an opinion sure. But not be a jerk. But on a different note, I have also realized on my own, clicker training WILL only get me so far. I'm going to have to find other ways to advance his training past basic obedience. If you happen to be able to kick it down a notch and give me some real advice l, I'd appreciate it. I'm just not yet willing to try ff. anything else is welcome. Thanks.

RANE D.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:24 pm

Rane, you asked for free advice and you got exactly what you paid for...

And I don't think people here are afraid to try new techniques... I think most good trainers ask critical questions about any technique, which is probably why so many questioned your chosen system. Good methods will withstand criticism.

Nutmeg247 · Post by **Nutmeg247** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:20 am

Yuma, I can see how you might feel jumped on a bit. But, you also got lots of good advice in this thread too -- it would be worth taking a day to put personal feelings aside, that are natural when you may feel either a "position" of yours or your dog itself was criticized, and re-read what you've been told. Also consider that when you ask for advice and then tell people that you feel you've already found a better way than what they suggest, that it's natural for you to get a certain response when you do that.

Task-wise, it sounds like you want to train a dog that is likely to be a close-working upland flusher in the way it will hunt. In addition to the very good info in this thread itself, there's a long-running thread on spaniels in this forum. I also would pay close attention to keeping your dog in condition and to the heat when you do work your dog as heat stress is likely to be an issue that you frequently confront in addition to regular training issues. Best of luck!

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:47 am

mnaj_springer wrote:Rane, you asked for free advice and you got exactly what you paid for...

And I don't think people here are afraid to try new techniques... I think most good trainers ask critical questions about any technique, which is probably why so many questioned your chosen system. Good methods will withstand criticism.

I have no problems with any of that. But if your going to be confrontational I would rather that person just move on. I asked for advice not "will you be as rude about it as possible and demean my chosen method of training?". I understand it's new. I understand it's not what everybody is used to doing. But if it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't. heck criticism is great. It presents me the opportunity to see it from both sides. But telling me I am a joke and that I will be laughed at hard core and maintaining that I'm basically useless. But anyways. Any advice? I'm thinking of getting Tom dokkens book.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:52 am

Nutmeg247 wrote:Yuma, I can see how you might feel jumped on a bit. But, you also got lots of good advice in this thread too -- it would be worth taking a day to put personal feelings aside, that are natural when you may feel either a "position" of yours or your dog itself was criticized, and re-read what you've been told. Also consider that when you ask for advice and then tell people that you feel you've already found a better way than what they suggest, that it's natural for you to get a certain response when you do that.

Task-wise, it sounds like you want to train a dog that is likely to be a close-working upland flusher in the way it will hunt. In addition to the very good info in this thread itself, there's a long-running thread on spaniels in this forum. I also would pay close attention to keeping your dog in condition and to the heat when you do work your dog as heat stress is likely to be an issue that you frequently confront in addition to regular training issues. Best of luck!

Well I guess your right. But still. There's only so far you need to go. But I don't know anybody on here and haven't built any rapport with anyone so I guess I should do that before getting mad at people. Idk. I never meant to offend anyone that's for sure. We will see how it goes.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:55 pm

There is no way you have offended anyone. Some people, when you can't look them in the eye, like to criticize, exaggerate, and say anything that d5raws attention. I am sure we have a few on the board. Sadly, that takes away so much from the help they could be but there just doesn't seem to be much anyone can do about it except ignore it and know what it is when you see it. You will find practically everyone on here has some good knowledge but don't always state it real well but their intentions are good.

Welcome to GDF

Ezzy

PS I am not a big retriever guy but from what I have learned on the board is the Dokken training book is not very good and you would do better to use Evans or a couple of others that are more upto date and much better.

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:21 pm

ezzy333 wrote:There is no way you have offended anyone. Some people, when you can't look them in the eye, like to criticize, exaggerate, and say anything that d5raws attention. I am sure we have a few on the board. Sadly, that takes away so much from the help they could be but there just doesn't seem to be much anyone can do about it except ignore it and know what it is when you see it. You will find practically everyone on here has some good knowledge but don't always state it real well but their intentions are good.

Welcome to GDF

Ezzy

PS I am not a big retriever guy but from what I have learned on the board is the Dokken training book is not very good and you would do better to use Evans or a couple of others that are more upto date and much better.

Oh "bleep" really? Crap. Well I almost bought it. Good thing I didn't. I'm going to open a new thread for a good book to get. But anyway, yeah I just don't know these guys well enough yet I suppose. Thanks for the advice I appreciate it.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:23 pm

Before starting a new thread, try the search function. The answer you are looking for may be out there already.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:20 pm

The search feature is less than helpful often. If he tries to search for " clicker training books" he will not get any help.
Look into : http://www.amazon.ca/How-Help-Dogs-Trai ... 0963012746

Not a book that suits my style but it may be helpful to you.
'

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:11 pm

That's probably true for clicker training but I think he asked about a retriever training book that wasn't Dokkens. Or am I mistaken Yuma?

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:31 pm

Sharon wrote:The search feature is less than helpful often. If he tries to search for " clicker training books" he will not get any help.
Look into : http://www.amazon.ca/How-Help-Dogs-Trai ... 0963012746

Not a book that suits my style but it may be helpful to you.
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That looks interesting thank you!

Yuma.Az.Hunter · Post by **Yuma.Az.Hunter** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:32 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:That's probably true for clicker training but I think he asked about a retriever training book that wasn't Dokkens. Or am I mistaken Yuma?

Yes I didn't think about that. So thank you. The only thing about that is Id like to talk to people about it and I'm not sure if I commented on some of those posts, if anyone would respond if they are old. Haha I'm new idk how it works yet.