What the heel to do??

[Jmjame22]

Me and my 1 year old are having trouble with the heel command. The dog knows the command and performs the command perfectly with one exception, he heels to far forward for my liking. The dogs stomach is at my legs so when I turn into him it's a problem. I have dedicated 50% of our training sessions the past two weeks to work on heeling but so far I have not been able to alter the habit. Now, he has lost total interest in the heel drills and I feel like he I am just confusing him. I have been walking him on a lead with a heavy metal jerk collar but he is just not responding. He walks forward, i apply pressure and pull him back, he speeds up to get ahead of me then slows to my pace then I apply pressure and pull him back (it's an endless circle)

What other drills can I use besides just walking him at heel and figure eights? He has lost his concentration with these drills and we are not making any progress. Any help would be appreciated.

[ezzy333]

Get a stick and swing it back and forth in front of you so it hits him when he is too far forward. By swinging it I mean hold it vertically like a walking stick which it really is and then just swing it by turning your wrist, back and forth as it hangs down so it is swinging right in front of you.

Ezzy

[DonF]

When your walking with him and he's in front so you don't sound like you think you can turn into him, it is exactly what you should do! as you turn, drop your knee and bump him in the side with it. Next time it happen's turn hard away from him. Then reverse 180*. He's not paying attention to you because he can't see you! You need to get his attention. You might enroll in an obedience coarse. They'll have your dog sit when you stop, have him sit. Sit and whoa are two different command's with the same meaning but performed differently. Your dog can certainly learn both commands and do them properly. We always hear about the horror of teaching your dog to sit, I have no problem with a dog that learn's to sit. If you are teaching whoa other than from heel, if your dog sit's it's not his problem, it's your's. Your dog doesn't know what you want. Now just for the sake of argument, would you rather have your dog sit down in confusion or would you rather it just ignored you? Myself, I wouldn't teach whoa on a heel, I use a whoa post. I have never had a dog get confused by it. I know a guy in Washington that did confuse his dog, he said whoa and the dog would sit. The dog was confused, un-confuse him. Simple to do. That guy gave up on it and brought it down here and it took less than 5 min to fix the problem. if there is any command I can see the dog confusing with another, it is whoa and no and yet they don't confuse it!

Get your dog's attention!

[Jmjame22]

Thanks ezzy I will try that approach.

Don, I'm not sure how we got to the sit and whoa commands and I deffinately don't know the difference between the two. I have always just used sit. My whole problem stems from not properly training him while he was a pup. I used to take him on a lot of walks hand that is where he developed this habbit. Then when I started formally training him, I overlooked his walking position because it was close enough. Now it drives me nuts.

[Sharon]

Get a stick and swing it back and forth in front of you so it hits him when he is too far forward. By swinging it I mean hold it vertically like a walking stick which it really is and then just swing it by turning your wrist, back and forth as it hangs down so it is swinging right in front of you.

Ezzy

Exactly what I do and occasionally it might hit the dog's nose if he's still pushing ahead.

[duckn66]

I teach heel in a square. If dog is on left side make right turns. Soon it will be where it's head is even with your leg and even bent around your leg. After it has this down you can move to figure 8s etc. change it up to when you make your turn also but always a 90 degree turn.

Lots of ways to teach heel. Some better some worse than others but I wouldn't recommend teaching it in a straight line.

[RayGubernat]

I use a heavy checkcord and twirl the bitter end so that it sweeps right in front of my foot. I start the dog off at my knee and twirl the cord. if the dog surges forward it gets bopped in the nose by the moving cord. After I get the dog situated, I start sinning the rope quicky enough to make noise. The dog is fully aware of the fact that there is a propeller out front. Then I slow the rope down a lot, but just enough to make a full circle.

Obviously I do not twirl the rope fast or hard when walking, but it is going around in full circle, so even at a slow speed it clunks the dog. I leave the rope long so there is no real chance the bitter end can hit the dog.

I also do 90 degree turns. The dog does not like it when it gets kneed in the shoulder because it was going straight when I turned. THAT gets their attention.

If the dog is not surging ahead, I routinely use a pigging string for the heel/whoa drills I do. It is a waxed cotton rope similar to a Wonder lead. If the dog's head is right by my knee, where it belongs, there is no pressure. If the dog pulls or hesitates, the noose closes on the dog's neck. I find they figure out, very quickly, how to keep the noose from applying pressure.

When the dog starts to do what I want in terms of heeling, I make a game of it...trying to "catch" the dog. I stop, start, hesitate and will eventually try to "fake the dog out" with turns and such. I think they quickly get bored with these kinds of highly repetitive drills, so I try to mix it up and do it with a smile and a laugh, especially when I do "catch" the dog. I want the dog heeling, but happy and attentive while doing it, so it is part training, part game and the dog knows even if it messes up...it is OK. I think they work harder at it this way. It is sure more fun for me than pulling, tugging and disciplining. The dogs seem not to mind it so much either.

RayG

[ezzy333]

I use a heavy checkcord and twirl the bitter end so that it sweeps right in front of my foot. I start the dog off at my knee and twirl the cord. if the dog surges forward it gets bopped in the nose by the moving cord. After I get the dog situated, I start sinning the rope quicky enough to make noise. The dog is fully aware of the fact that there is a propeller out front. Then I slow the rope down a lot, but just enough to make a full circle.

Obviously I do not twirl the rope fast or hard when walking, but it is going around in full circle, so even at a slow speed it clunks the dog. I leave the rope long so there is no real chance the bitter end can hit the dog.

I also do 90 degree turns. The dog does not like it when it gets kneed in the shoulder because it was going straight when I turned. THAT gets their attention.

If the dog is not surging ahead, I routinely use a pigging string for the heel/whoa drills I do. It is a waxed cotton rope similar to a Wonder lead. If the dog's head is right by my knee, where it belongs, there is no pressure. If the dog pulls or hesitates, the noose closes on the dog's neck. I find they figure out, very quickly, how to keep the noose from applying pressure.

When the dog starts to do what I want in terms of heeling, I make a game of it...trying to "catch" the dog. I stop, start, hesitate and will eventually try to "fake the dog out" with turns and such. I think they quickly get bored with these kinds of highly repetitive drills, so I try to mix it up and do it with a smile and a laugh, especially when I do "catch" the dog. I want the dog heeling, but happy and attentive while doing it, so it is part training, part game and the dog knows even if it messes up...it is OK. I think they work harder at it this way. It is sure more fun for me than pulling, tugging and disciplining. The dogs seem not to mind it so much either.

RayG

I do this too when I don't have a stick and it works just as well.

[Swampbilly]

Could be I ain't gettin' the whole picture - if you've got good lead control and timing, I don't understand how pup is getting too far ahead

[DonF]

Thanks ezzy I will try that approach.

Don, I'm not sure how we got to the sit and whoa commands and I definitely don't know the difference between the two. I have always just used sit. My whole problem stems from not properly training him while he was a pup. I used to take him on a lot of walks hand that is where he developed this habbit. Then when I started formally training him, I overlooked his walking position because it was close enough. Now it drives me nuts.

.

It's easy. I suggested enrolling in an obedience course. I think I mentioned you'd have to talk to the instructor about the dog sitting when you stop. A lot of people think it's bad to teach a bird dog to sit, I don't. Sit and whoa don't sound even remotely alike therefore you should be able to teach both at the same time. Of course if your not going to do an obedience course with your dog, just skip that part. I still suggest you take the course though. Most are not designed to train your dog, they are designed to teach you how to do it! This problem you have right now is the result of you not understanding how to get to where you want to go. hands on training is 100% better than talking about it with a bunch of people on the internet even if they do know what they are doing. Your mistake's get called out as you make them, not at some point later on. And, you have the advantage of having one teacher and one idea on how to get where you rather than a number and no hands on. You'll get a good lesson in the importance of repetition in training your dog. It will carry over into other area's where you train.

A lot of years ago I taught my dog's to heel a horse. Did a lot of horseback stuff back then and was easier than getting off the horse every time to hook up a dog and then let the dog just come along in it's own manner. But before you can do that, you have to teach your dog to heel you. Best place for you in my opinion is in an obedience class, even if the instructor wan't you to teach sit rather than whoa. Teach it, it's just a command!

[Fun dog]

Lily fights heel all the time and we have to work on it every single day. When it's too icy outside we bring it in, but we have a small house so we do dog dancing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyQ_6rB ... load_owner

[Vernal Pike]

Use the Higging technique.
Worked great for my Setter.
A lot easier than the Visla in the vid.
Got the leash from Higgims on the web site.

I've done AKC obedience stuff. I have experience.
The Higgins leash is the best by far.
So easy!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I3FEQcCY1E0


http://higginsgundogs.com/store/higgins ... der-leash/
Vernal


Again,
My Setter adapted so much easier than the Visla in the vid.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

Use the Higging technique.
Worked great for my Setter.
A lot easier than the Visla in the vid.
Got the leash from Higgims on the web site.

I've done AKC obedience stuff. I have experience.
The Higgins leash is the best by far.
So easy!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I3FEQcCY1E0


http://higginsgundogs.com/store/higgins ... der-leash/
Vernal


Again,
My Setter adapted so much easier than the Visla in the vid.

There are many on this site that have a lot of AKC Obed titles. Whats your point? Sorry but that leash looks too corny to go on my Gundog LOL...Oh, and what is a Visla? Sorry But you did it twice so you lose creds.

[Vernal Pike]

The Point is that I have experience with other types of heal training.
Irregardless of the technique, this leash design has been by far the easiest to use.
Thank you Mr. Perfict for correctiing my spelling of Vishla.
People here are meen. I won't come here anymore


Vernal

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

Wasn't trying to be perfect but your lack of breeds doesn't give much confidence. I have no idea of what a Visla or Vishla is. Read my name to figure it out. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

[ezzy333]

The Point is that I have experience with other types of heal training.
Irregardless of the technique, this leash design has been by far the easiest to use.
Thank you Mr. Perfict for correctiing my spelling of Vishla.
People here are meen. I won't come here anymore


Vernal

The method being used works and has since before Higgins was hatched. Don't quite get how it became the Higgin's method. I learned it from my Dad 70 years ago and he had used it for years before that as most farmers did that needed to be able to control animals even much bigger than dogs. It usually doesn't take long to teach no matter what you use if you are just consistent but the loop around the muzzle put more pressure on the dog to obey as you can tell when the dog tries to get it off of her nose. Control is why we use halters on all types of animals and not just a loop around their neck. The halter allows you to control their head and not just the body. Don't be fooled into thinking the dog chooses to walk beside you. If you need proof take the leash off and see what the dog does or just look at the tail position and when you see it tucked down between the legs the dog is telling you I may be forced to doing what you want but I don't like it. That shouldn't be a problem if you teach gently and give the dog affirmative attention such as the pat or gentle words as a treat.