chewing feathers on retrieve

[dottie]

I have a 2 year old Brittany. I am a complete Novice hunter/ trainer. Zippy will retrieve bumpers, or  generally anything I toss or place for fetching. He will retrieve and return to front and sit and hold until I command give.....but if we try this with a live/shot bird or a bumper with feathers taped on .....he will nibble/ chew on the  bird/ feathered bumper. He has a soft mouth mouth so the bird is not damaged but his  feather chewing is annoying and does not meet the level of the rest of his behavior/training.

I would appreciate any suggestions to correct this!

[gonehuntin']

You pose a very tough question here and there is no answer that will be a guaranteed cure. Force fetch is always an option but I have found that it may work close, but at a distance, the dog may still mouth the bird. If he were breaking bones and the bird was unfit for the table, I'd say stop shooting birds and ff him. That isn't the case. Were I you, I'd live with it. I should get better with age as his excitement level gradually ebbs. If it doesn't, ff him. Many times it's a product of an excited young dog and the more birds he gets shot over him, the more the problem decreases.

You have to pick you battles with these dogs and right now, this issue is not worth making a battle of.

[deseeker]

If he were breaking bones and the bird was unfit for the table, I'd say stop shooting birds and ff him. That isn't the case. Were I you, I'd live with it. I should get better with age as his excitement level gradually ebbs. If it doesn't, ff him. Many times it's a product of an excited young dog and the more birds he gets shot over him, the more the problem decreases.

You have to pick you battles with these dogs and right now, this issue is not worth making a battle of.

+1

[gundogguy]

"The suggestions to correct could be worse than the issue itself."
Mouth behaviors good or bad are usually an indication of some form of conflict or it could be a genetic issue. There could be a lot of different behaviors coming to the surface. But Before any recommendations are made i would have to see a short video.
The dogs "intent" must be fully understood before a yea or nay is pronounced.
It is one of those training situations that requires eye witness interpretation!

[Swampbilly]

Agree with Gonehuntin'
If it ain't broke don't fix it kinda' thing.

Would offer up this though-
Sounds like "Zippy" might could use a little Zip on a return, which may take away the time to even think about gettin' mouthy.
Re-enforce HERE in the yard, get it crisp, then bring Obedience and retrieving together.

[gonehuntin']

Agree with Gonehuntin'
If it ain't broke don't fix it kinda' thing.

Would offer up this though-
Sounds like "Zippy" might could use a little Zip on a return, which may take away the time to even think about gettin' mouthy.
Re-enforce HERE in the yard, get it crisp, then bring Obedience and retrieving together.

Great advice Swamp. Speed of return cures many ff ills.

[will-kelly]

Mouth behaviors good or bad are usually an indication of some form of conflict or it could be a genetic issue.

Good mouth behaviors are a form of conflict? Might be the single most ridiculous statement on the forum.

It sounds like the dog has had limited birds shot over him and is still getting used to the experience.(feathers on a bumper) All the bumper throwing in the world will not make up for actual bird contact. Additionally tying feathers to a bumper may also be contributing to the problem. Try losing the feather wrapped bumper.

I would also venture to say you are talking a lot. The more frustrated we get the tendency most of us have is to try to command and correct the dog.(this was my big problem 2 years ago) Go silent. Say nothing even if the dog mouths the bird. If he brings it to you 100% correctly maybe a light touch or pet but no all out "Yipee you did it". He mouths walk away. Make him follow you with the bird. This little exercise has helped me. Getting the dog to carry the bird or not immediately taking it from him is all training him to carry it correctly.

In my experience good natural relieving dogs that show this immaturity eventually come around. My takes birds, birds and more birds.

[DonF]

I'm with GH but, I'd put the bumper's and feather's away and stop with the fresh killed bird and do a bunch of retrieving with with frozen bird's. The body stays frozen and not to pleasant to chew on. The body od a fresh kill is warm, soft and inviting. The feathers on the bumper Don't really add much and the bumper itself is probably soft and chewy. he get's to far gone chewing on a fresh killed bird and it could become a problem down the road. With the feather's on a bumper, I don't know if the feather's do one bit of good. I wonder? Take the feather's off the bumper and if you want him to retrieve something soft use the plain bumper, if there is scent in the feather's git rid of it.

[gundogguy]

Mouth behaviors good or bad are usually an indication of some form of conflict or it could be a genetic issue.

Good mouth behaviors are a form of conflict? Might be the single most ridiculous statement on the forum.

It sounds like the dog has had limited birds shot over him and is still getting used to the experience.(feathers on a bumper) All the bumper throwing in the world will not make up for actual bird contact. Additionally tying feathers to a bumper may also be contributing to the problem. Try losing the feather wrapped bumper.

I would also venture to say you are talking a lot. The more frustrated we get the tendency most of us have is to try to command and correct the dog.(this was my big problem 2 years ago) Go silent. Say nothing even if the dog mouths the bird. If he brings it to you 100% correctly maybe a light touch or pet but no all out "Yipee you did it". He mouths walk away. Make him follow you with the bird. This little exercise has helped me. Getting the dog to carry the bird or not immediately taking it from him is all training him to carry it correctly.

In my experience good natural relieving dogs that show this immaturity eventually come around. My takes birds, birds and more birds.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Left part of thought off the sentence that would have made more sense.
I am glad you have a enough experience to know a "good natural relieving dog" when you see one! :roll:

[polmaise]

"Good mouth behaviours are a form of conflict?"
I reckon some folks like chewing at each other
..................
A 2 year old Brit ?...How long with the issue?
Is it the hold or the re-call or No 'FF' ? ..Soft mouth you say 'dottie' ?..But what is your version of ''soft mouth'' ?
Teach 'force hold' ! ..my 'American mentor' told me !...Watch your fingers now !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwrcNqBqweg

[gundogguy]

"Good mouth behaviours are a form of conflict?"
I reckon some folks like chewing at each other
..................
A 2 year old Brit ?...How long with the issue?
Is it the hold or the re-call or No 'FF' ? ..Soft mouth you say 'dottie' ?..But what is your version of ''soft mouth'' ?
Teach 'force hold' ! ..my 'American mentor' told me !...Watch your fingers now !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwrcNqBqweg

[crackerd]

"Good mouth behaviours are a form of conflict?"
I reckon some folks like chewing at each other
..................
A 2 year old Brit ?...How long with the issue?
Is it the hold or the re-call or No 'FF' ? ..Soft mouth you say 'dottie' ?..But what is your version of ''soft mouth'' ?
Teach 'force hold' ! ..my 'American mentor' told me !...Watch your fingers now !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwrcNqBqweg

American mentor? Looks like you got an American praying mantis reaching for that bumper, Robt.!

And OP, you never (never!) (never!!) want to use frozen birds for retrieving exercises.

MG

[Swampbilly]

And OP, you never (never!) (never!!) want to use frozen birds for retrieving exercises.

MG

Amen (Amen!), AMEN!!

[DonF]

And OP, you never (never!) (never!!) want to use frozen birds for retrieving exercises.

MG

Amen (Amen!), AMEN!!

Wondering why you guy's think that?

[crackerd]

And OP, you never (never!) (never!!) want to use frozen birds for retrieving exercises.

MG

Amen (Amen!), AMEN!!

Wondering why you guy's think that?

Because it will invite a puppy to have a pupsicle, i.e., chewing on a frozen bird, or else their teeth can be sensitive to something frozen, i.e., the bird, and they may spit it out and you can't blame them for doing so. If you're going for the trifecta of "why not's," dogs also have to bite down harder on a frozen bird of any size (duck or pheasant) to keep hold of it, which ain't good for future mouth habits.

MG

[polmaise]

Because it will invite a puppy to have a pupsicle, i.e., chewing on a frozen bird, or else their teeth can be sensitive to something frozen, i.e., the bird, and they may spit it out and you can't blame them for doing so. If you're going for the trifecta of "why not's," dogs also have to bite down harder on a frozen bird of any size (duck or pheasant) to keep hold of it, which ain't good for future mouth habits.

MG

Reckon it's one of them 'Internetty' things folk pick up and 'beleive'...just because !!???....well?.....Bill or Bob said it ,so it must be right!? ...Right? :roll:
Rather than 'Knowing'...about a dog and 'Especially'..with a retrieve.
I wonder how many 'Human' folk could or would run 50 yards with frozen flavoured 'popsicle' in their gob and find it --- er good to go?

[Swampbilly]

Wondering why you guy's think that?

Because it will invite a puppy to have a pupsicle, i.e., chewing on a frozen bird, or else their teeth can be sensitive to something frozen, i.e., the bird, and they may spit it out and you can't blame them for doing so. If you're going for the trifecta of "why not's," dogs also have to bite down harder on a frozen bird of any size (duck or pheasant) to keep hold of it, which ain't good for future mouth habits.

MG

Doesn't get any bettern' that, I swear ^^^^
Would also much more want to make any proper corrections on what pup is going to be returning with than not the rest of his retrieving life, as well as what is the item pup is "mouthy" with.
Makes for a more meaningful training session.
Just noticed too, that it seems that the OP may be having pup returning to a front SIT instead of back to HEEL (?)

[DonF]

OK, so why are you putting a frozen bird in a puppy's mouth? Why do dog's have to bite down harder on a frozen bird? They only need to bite down hard enough to hold it, in fact, that's as hard as you want. Their teeth can be sensitive to something frozen? Really. Didn't you let the bird thaw about 30 min or did you take it right out of the freezer to the pup's mouth? Try this, go get a frozen bird out and let it thaw about 30 min then pick it up in your hand and feel it. Your gonna find that the thawed feather's insulate your hand from the frozen bird inside. They also insulate the dog's teeth from the bird inside and let's face it, you really don't want the dog to bite down so hard it puncture's the dead bird do you? Or, maybe you do!

[gonehuntin']

Don't get ruffled Don, it's simply a belief that most of the retriever trainers in the country hold. First, I have found dog's not to be particularly fond of handling frozen birds. Second, they are hard like a bone and the dog's seem to want to gnaw on them. Third, unless you flatten them, they are difficult for a dog to carry, like a football is. The harder and more round, the harder they have to clamp down on it, thus promoting hard mouth. That's why I've never used them without unthawing them. Like many things, you MAY use them on dog's for years with no problem, then that one dog comes alone..........