10 month English setter question

[Hairofthebear]

What if anything can I reasonably expect to see of an English setter at 10 months when its in the field? It runs all over the place generally behind me, not focused on hunting, (never has showed hunting interest), not interested in any chukar smell (I placed a dead one in a bush after rubbing it on the ground), no interest in any live pigeon hidden in the grass, or won't retrieve a wounded one. There is zero motivation in wanting to hunt....just running in the woods helter skelter. Should I talk to the breeder since they train? They are expensive and I did pay for two months and don't see one thing different). Would they take the dog back if I asked? I have talked to them and they said a lot of BS about the dog I haven't seen (either with them or when its with me at home). Very frustrated right now and ready to give up since I haven't one thing that is showing me a bird dog.

[deseeker]

rez--Dec5 2014 002.JPG

The setter was around 9 1/2 months old in the picture. This picture came in Dec from a hunt Mark & I took with Jordi(setter).
In heavy cover(chest high CRP) Jordi hunts hard & quarters around 75 yards or less(she opens up in more open country)---always to the front somewhere between 9 & 3. She will hold point and let Mark kick the birds up. She goes with their flight, but will call off chase if nothing is shot. She will retrieve to hand(at this time she has a little trouble getting a body hold on roosters). On training quail & pigeons she has a fairly good retrieve to hand(after she circles a couple times too show them off) --too early for ff. She will back my britt in open country or whoa into a back on a hard to see pointing dog in heavier cover. She leaves the back when the bird flys. During training with pigeons she will stand the point all the way thru flight & blank gun until released.
Mark is now about got her to senior hunter level(she is about a year old now) and will be trying that in hunt tests in April. She has be fairly easy to train and has a bird drive that is unbelievable---if I didn't like britts so much I'd probably try a setter. :roll:
I hope this gives you an idea of where his 10 month old setter was. She's a nice dog. Oh and she points with a 12 o'clock tail I hope your's comes along--you did get this dog out of hunting setters and not show setters

[Garrison]

The dog spent time in training with the breeder? This guy knew birds and would kill himself to find them, long before 10 months and I am 100% sure I had nothing to do with it. I would have the breeder work him out in front of me.

[Sharon]

What if anything can I reasonably expect to see of an English setter at 10 months when its in the field? It runs all over the place generally behind me, not focused on hunting, (never has showed hunting interest), not interested in any chukar smell (I placed a dead one in a bush after rubbing it on the ground), no interest in any live pigeon hidden in the grass, or won't retrieve a wounded one. There is zero motivation in wanting to hunt....just running in the woods helter skelter. Should I talk to the breeder since they train? They are expensive and I did pay for two months and don't see one thing different). Would they take the dog back if I asked? I have talked to them and they said a lot of BS about the dog I haven't seen (either with them or when its with me at home). Very frustrated right now and ready to give up since I haven't one thing that is showing me a bird dog.

..............
Welcome to the forum.

Dogs mature at their own rate , but no interest at 10 months is worrisome and disappointing.
What were your dog's parents like? Did you see them work?

"Would they take the dog back if I asked? " quote

Based on the dogs I've had , personally, I would ask them to take it back , but that is your choice alone .. The trainer doesn't have to take the dog back , nor refund your money.
Someone may say their dog got the zest for birds at age 2 - so who knows.

Next time you use a trainer , have him/her show you what the dog has learned.
Let us know how it works out if you can.

[Hairofthebear]

After no interest with live pigeons they offered to train him for two months. When I would call the trainer would go on and one with how much he was learning. When I picked the dog up I did ask for her to show me his stuff in the field. He walked right over the spot where two chukars were sitting a minute before and didn't pick up the smell. He ran around like he hadn't learned a thing. So I was very disappointed, but the trainer said to be patient. So that is why I am frustrated because at 10 months there is nothing there. Parents background. His father is at the other end of the country. His mother.....died two days after he was born due to some infection. There were two puppies. One died. I brought this concern up and the owner said there would absolutely no issue. My pup was hand raised in doors. I felt this as not a good situation, but he owner insisted I would have a good dog. Now they are saying the pup might take 1.5 years before its interested.

[shags]

For now I would delete all the above brag dog photos and dialog from my memory banks. They aren't helping you, even posted with the best of intentions.

From your other thread plus this one it sounds to me like you have to back up...way way back. Some dogs come on later; it's frustrating but you have to wait them out. Add that to what I would bet is some pretty poor training and you have a dog that thinks it's safer to shut down than to give any effort.

You mention putting out a dead chukar and that the dog had no interest. Well, why would he? Pointing dogs don't do old dead birds. Then you say you were disappointed that the dog didn't indicate a hot spot where birds had been. Again, why would you expect him to? There isn't anything there.

Some dogs don't really care for pigeons either, even in the best of circumstances. And it sounds to me like your trainer could be heavy handed. Which coupled with a soft young dog whose switch hasn't flipped means avoidance. You don't say what you have done with the dog so more info there could help the forum to help you. Do you use an ecollar, checkcord, jump boxes, etc?

If that was my little dog I would take him afield and happy time him. A lot. No birds, no pressure, no nothing including nagging to go here or there. Make him happy to be out with you. When you see that the pressure has been relieved, plant some pigeons or quail in likely cover and take the dog out again. Let him find them on his own and keep your mouth shut, no nagging, no nothing. If you did the happy timing successfully, the dog will be moving around on his own and might even be going in your direction all on his own. If so, gently lead him to the 'birdy' areas. Again, keep your mouth shut and let him do what he will. Don't take him to the birds, just guide him to the area and let him find them on his own. If he finds birds leave him alone. If he blinks them, leave him alone. He needs to disassociate birds with the unpleasantness and pressure he has carried around up until now. It might take a while but patience will pay off.

This could be a long journey for you but you will learn a lot about training and a lot about reading a dog. Be patient.
By next season you could have a dog that is ready to find birds for you, even if he isn't finished to level you would like. That can come later.

Laying right next to me is a coming 13 year old setter who was a late bloomer. He went with a trainer who was too pushy and too harsh for this dog. That set the dog back even more. It took some time but eventually the dog turned around and is a field champion, and good personal gun dog, and even though he's been retired for a while, folks who have seen him in his prime still talk about him.
Our journey together was long and sometimes frustrating but in the end, all worth it.

Best of luck to you and your dog.

[Garrison]

"What if anything can I reasonably expect to see of an English setter at 10 months when its in the field?"

This was the question and the pictures were what you could reasonably expect to see from a dog that is 10 months old in the field. It was not meant to brag. What is the breeding and pedigree on the dog? My father in-law has a dog now from show lines, he will find and point birds. It was at a much slower pace then a field bred dog and sometimes you don't know if he is pointing or just standing there. He does have a good nose and will find you birds. If I paid for services I would want to see what I paid for. I am not one to give up on a dog, it took me a year and tons of pigeons to fix the gun shy GSP that I have now. I wanted the challenge and I am happy that I did it. Just have to ask yourself if this is something you want to tackle, it may or may not work out.

[deseeker]

[quote="Garrison"]"What if anything can I reasonably expect to see of an English setter at 10 months when its in the field?"

This was the question and the pictures were what you could reasonably expect in to see from a dog that is 10 months old in the field. It was not meant to brag.

I agree with Garrison, the op asked what was reasonable to see in a 10 month old setter---my answer was not a brag, it isn't even my dog It is what I see in my friends 10 month old setter. All I did was answer his original question. I'm not saying the op's dog is untrainable--it is just going to take a lot of work

[DonF]

Stormy was about 10+ month's before he started showing interest. Squirt and Bodie, E Setter's were pointing and backing soon after I got them home. Gertie didn't show much interest until about 9 months and now she's a terror. Dogs come on at different time's. If you bought from a good hunting line, I'd stick it out, it should surface. But if you bought from a show line, might and might not come around. Of course I was at a hunt test a couple years ago and watched a few show setter's that are good gun dog's. My Setter's are Amer Fld, I would not buy an AKC setter without seeing both parent's on the ground and then I'd be a bit skeptical. For now though, I'd wait it out. Get a pigeon and pull the flight feather's and throw it on the ground with the pup watching. It doesn't at least chase a bit, then I'd worry!

[shags]

Thing is, guys, without knowing anything about the OP's dog, we all could *expect* a whole lot of other things...we could expect it to be a big doofus puppy; we could expect it to be a bonehead derby dog; we could expect it to be green broke; we could expect it to be ready to finish; we could expect flashpoints. Maybe some of those things are not what we want to see, but they are things that could be expected in a young dog that maybe isn't loaded with talent or desire.

The guy is coming here for help for his pup, not to feel worse than he already feels. Those are nice dogs y'all put up here, but probably all of us could have posted pics -if we had any- of another dozen variations on what we can expect from a young dog. But we tend to not want reminders of that stuff

So, no offense meant, whatsoever.

OP, something you take away as a huge lesson, no matter how this turns put...always before you drop a dog off for training, watch that trainer work a few dogs. Ask specific questions. Ask what if's and what's next and how they're going to get there. Some trainers are good at pounding round pegs into round holes, but are not so good at recognizing a square peg and changing tools and holes for them.

[SetterNut]

How much bird exposure the pup has had is more important than the age, to a great extent.

A 4-5 month old pup that has been out running and on birds, I would expect more out of than a dog that is a year old and is getting its first exposure to birds.