smart fetch

[smittty]

OK I am sure this has been asked before but not by me so here it go's ...I have force fetched a few dos in the past but not in a few years and I keep hearing about smart fetch so I figure what the heck i'll give it a try so I ordered the dvd. after looking it over the only real thing different was not forcing the hold ...also I never transitioned to the collar I started and finished with the ear pinch well here my question what is the advantage to train hold without force????? and are there any other advantages in transitioning to the e-collar other then it makes it easier on the trainers back???

[DonF]

OK I am sure this has been asked before but not by me so here it go's ...I have force fetched a few dos in the past but not in a few years and I keep hearing about smart fetch so I figure what the heck i'll give it a try so I ordered the dvd. after looking it over the only real thing different was not forcing the hold ...also I never transitioned to the collar I started and finished with the ear pinch well here my question what is the advantage to train hold without force????? and are there any other advantages in transitioning to the e-collar other then it makes it easier on the trainers back???

The dogs you FF'ed in the past, did you need to teach them "hold". If not, what has changed?

[smittty]

no I did not teach hold I inforced it ..the difference to me is Evan teaches hold and I was forcing hold.. just wondering why he does not use force ...also I have a young dog that I will be starting this week and I think I may follow his dvd ..I am just curious why he teaches hold without force and also why he go's to the e-collar

[EvanG]

no I did not teach hold I inforced it ..the difference to me is Evan teaches hold and I was forcing hold.. just wondering why he does not use force ...also I have a young dog that I will be starting this week and I think I may follow his dvd ..I am just curious why he teaches hold without force and also why he go's to the e-collar

I think I can help. I do it that way because it follows sound practice. With any command we follow a training cycle that is consistently "Teach, Force, Reinforce". I know many people don't just look at that and clearly understand it, so here's a bit more explanation. You can read all this in the books Smartwork volume one, and SmartFetch.

Teach; the first and most important step, this is simply the guiding of behavior passively, and then rewarding it. That is the fairest way to begin a new task because starting out with force when the dog doesn't know what he should be doing is very unfair. Guide the new behavior, reward the dog for compliance, and give him a reason to want to do it. Then less force will be needed to formalize the command. This is one important advantage of also getting the books along with the DVD's.

Force; When the dog clearly demonstrates an understanding and basic competence for a given skill or command, force is applied in a temperate, humane manner to insure compliance, even when the dog may be distracted. The use of pressure in this manner stabilizes the dog's responses and causes them to be more reliable.

Reinforce; This term is often misunderstood; so let me make the meaning clear. Reinforcement is training that strengthens and supports previously taught skills and commands. Force fetching skills are our idea - they're man made, and we need to understand that well enough to realize that they'll need maintenance over the dog's working career. This maintenance will reinforce all of them and keep them in top working order.

Does that help?

EvanG

[smittty]

Yes it does ...I just got the video and no book I thought they would be the same ..anyways I think I get what your saying is that your theory is to put the least amount of pressure on a young dog correct??.also why the transition to the collar I am thinking its just to make it easier working on the ground?? hope I am not being a pain in the "bleep" I am trying to put it all together.. I enjoy learning new tricks of the trade thanks

[birddogger]

Yes it does ...I just got the video and no book I thought they would be the same ..anyways I think I get what your saying is that your theory is to put the least amount of pressure on a young dog correct??.also why the transition to the collar I am thinking its just to make it easier working on the ground?? hope I am not being a pain in the "bleep" I am trying to put it all together.. I enjoy learning new tricks of the trade thanks

IMO, if you are interested in FF, you will not find a better program than Evan's Smartfetch. Having said that, I will address your question on why to transition to the e-collar. It just gives you a tool/ability to reinforce a command at a distance if necessary. When training, I transition all commands to the e-collar. As many on here have said, think of it as a long leash or CC.

Charlie

[gonehuntin']

When you said you forced on hold, exactly what did you mean?

[DonF]

Ya know, reading Evan's last post, I did teach hold, I simply did not use the command hold. First thing I do on the table is teach the dog to take an object, I use the term fetch. I give the command then roll a buck into it's mouth. It will try to spit it most time's so I do hold my hand under the chin to help keep it's mouth shut. My feeling is that what I'm teaching the dog to do there is to open it's mouth and take something then hold it till I say I want it back, command I use is leave it. So actually I do teach hold, I just use a different term. Everyone has to do that to start the dog out.

[Gordon Guy]

Where can a person get the book and or DVD? Is there a website?

[EvanG]

Where can a person get the book and or DVD? Is there a website?

Here is the link to our site. Click on the "Store" tab.

http://www.evan-graham.net/

EvanG