Craig, we met some years ago up at a private club in Canada some time ago, I believe?
GREAT pics! Your work with dogs is incredible and very much appreciated.
Maisey really looked after us out there. We had been on the road a cumulative of 32 hours. It was so nice of them to share their food and to take us around in the dog wagon.
Wish I had been better prepared. We had a setter with us that was just a cracker but he wasn't quite up to par with what we saw. It is something I'll never forget.
Thank you for sharing your pics and for your opinion.
Bracco Italiano in America ?
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Dirty Dawger
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chiendog
- Rank: Master Hunter
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Re: Bracco Italiano in America ?
I understand where you are coming from. But it could also be argued that one of the reasons the GSP has become so popular is because it has proven to be very adaptable, and, right or wrong, easily modified into different 'types', some of which can be quite a long way from the original.It is about breeding what made GSPs the most popular pointing breed out in the name of improving the breed
Nevertheless, the bottom line is that we now have GSPs and GWPs etc. that are about as German as a plate of sushi. Some are, for all intents and purposes, ASPs (American Shorthaired Pointers) or AWPs (American Wirehaired Pointers). And when you think about it, just how English are our English setters or Pointers after 150+ years of being bred in North America, with very little input from imported stock in over a century? They too are, for all intents and purposes, American Setters and American Pointers. I've always found it a bit curious that we here in North America have never really come up with our own pointing breeds...at least officially. We've created our own retrieving breeds, hound breeds, flushing breeds etc. But for some strange reason, when it comes to Pointing breeds, we tend to just take European breeds and then modify ("improve") them, sometimes to such a degree that they really are a new and different breed. Yet we still keep the original name. It can be confusing as heck, especially to new comers.
Last edited by chiendog on Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Bracco Italiano in America ?
I have got mixed feelings concerning the way in which breeds get changed to better suit the country they were imported into. I wouldn't like to see the Bracco Italinano's very distinctive and very effective way of moving lost in the interest of more pace and more range for example.
On the other hand I have felt for many years that many of the Weimaraners I watched in trials worked nose down and dead slow and stop. Others , even among the breeds fans, felt the same and one of them did something about it. He made extensive enquiries then bought a field trial bred weimy pup in America and brought it over here. That dog can really go ! I have no idea if some dodgy breeding went on to produce it but it still looks like a weimaraner to me.....only the "style" and the pace and the range has changed a bit and in my opinion for the better.
My very first GSP was a bit of a throwback in the way she looked. She was more sturdy looking than almost any other GSP I have seen and yet she was a bitch and she looked like a bitch. She arrived in the world with so much natural willingness to be trained that I thought she was better than most labs in that regard. She hunted fast and far out , pointed very well and retrieved very well with a mouth like a velvet glove. I never had another GSP quite as easy to train as her.
The thing I often notice now both with American GSP's and the ones bred here is that they seem to be becoming "finer" in their structure and yet they don't do any better out hunting than she did and are too often a good bit more difficult to train .
I only have two pics of her and they were taken before digital cameras so to get this picture of her I had to take a photograph of one of those old photographs in order to post it.
This is "Eva" as you can see she looks pretty heavy built compared to the majority of the bitches I see now both here and in photographs on this forum. Did she need to be changed to make her into a better working dog ? I don't think so.
Bill T.
On the other hand I have felt for many years that many of the Weimaraners I watched in trials worked nose down and dead slow and stop. Others , even among the breeds fans, felt the same and one of them did something about it. He made extensive enquiries then bought a field trial bred weimy pup in America and brought it over here. That dog can really go ! I have no idea if some dodgy breeding went on to produce it but it still looks like a weimaraner to me.....only the "style" and the pace and the range has changed a bit and in my opinion for the better.
My very first GSP was a bit of a throwback in the way she looked. She was more sturdy looking than almost any other GSP I have seen and yet she was a bitch and she looked like a bitch. She arrived in the world with so much natural willingness to be trained that I thought she was better than most labs in that regard. She hunted fast and far out , pointed very well and retrieved very well with a mouth like a velvet glove. I never had another GSP quite as easy to train as her.
The thing I often notice now both with American GSP's and the ones bred here is that they seem to be becoming "finer" in their structure and yet they don't do any better out hunting than she did and are too often a good bit more difficult to train .
I only have two pics of her and they were taken before digital cameras so to get this picture of her I had to take a photograph of one of those old photographs in order to post it.
This is "Eva" as you can see she looks pretty heavy built compared to the majority of the bitches I see now both here and in photographs on this forum. Did she need to be changed to make her into a better working dog ? I don't think so.
Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !
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Dirty Dawger
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Re: Bracco Italiano in America ?
Nice pic Trekmoor. I think she looks awesome. Congrats on those accreditations too!
If you want a GSP that is a virtual pointer, so be it. If you want a GSP that is more traditional, so be it. It's when you look for one thing and get something completely diverse that you can be disappointed about.
The concern is when you look for, research, and discuss with breeders the details of what you are looking for and get something only remotely similar. No longer can you look for GSPs (GSPs are not the only breeds in this situation) and assume you're getting a GSP. The research almost assuredly requires that you see the sire, dam, other dogs from previous breedings, etc. in action.
Of course this is not a guarantee but it helps. If there was anything to be guaranteed in breeding, I believe more of us would be in thoroughbred race horses.
If you want a GSP that is a virtual pointer, so be it. If you want a GSP that is more traditional, so be it. It's when you look for one thing and get something completely diverse that you can be disappointed about.
The concern is when you look for, research, and discuss with breeders the details of what you are looking for and get something only remotely similar. No longer can you look for GSPs (GSPs are not the only breeds in this situation) and assume you're getting a GSP. The research almost assuredly requires that you see the sire, dam, other dogs from previous breedings, etc. in action.
Of course this is not a guarantee but it helps. If there was anything to be guaranteed in breeding, I believe more of us would be in thoroughbred race horses.
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chiendog
- Rank: Master Hunter
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Re: Bracco Italiano in America ?
I found an interesting document online today. It is a sort of powerpoint webinar presentation by Flavio Fusetti on the history, look and working style of the Bracco. Have a look! https://www.facebook.com/download/15639 ... ebinar.pdf