Long Marks- How to train

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Long Marks- How to train

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:53 pm

I'm wondering how folks here train for long marks (over 60 yards, for all intents and purposes). I'm especially interested in how people do so without a training partner present.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:48 pm

Remote launcher ! ..Bumper boy should do it .

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by chrokeva » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:24 pm

I have been using a lucky launcher. Along with the little plastic bullet dummies they go really far. In a downwind we can get 100 plus yards easily.

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by gundogguy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:44 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:I'm wondering how folks here train for long marks (over 60 yards, for all intents and purposes). I'm especially interested in how people do so without a training partner present.



Mnaj there are a number of ways to help condition a dog on longer marks over 60 yards though 60yrd is not much of a goal, when 200-300yds is achievable are capable using the Bill Hillman exercises. Bill has many videos at you tube. By the Way Bill has made more High Point Retriever pups than any body on earth. Good sound stuff here.
Understand in this one video there are some prerequisite and more going on than just working at distance when you have no helpers. I have always found it easier with no helpers because usually i have to train the helper first. This technique teaches the dog eventually to look out for the marks or falling birds instead of looking at the handler.
This 1st video will give you some foundation to start with, I have never used a launcher of any sort to developing faultless retrieving spaniels.
Using the stand alone exercises and bird in mouth drills along with diversion birds is about what I need for an excellent gun dog or trial champion in the spaniel world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slGVA9fKGQY

vid 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G2M7-ozjMU
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by CDN_Cocker » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:13 pm

Even without a launcher you can do roving marks. Sit the dog and walk 100 yards away and THEN throw the dummy
Cass
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:25 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Even without a launcher you can do roving marks. Sit the dog and walk 100 yards away and THEN throw the dummy
Roving Marks?
Is that like a 'memory'? retrieve?...What does the dog 'Mark' when you walk back?

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by CDN_Cocker » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:38 pm

No not a memory. The dog is marking the dummy, but if you are a further distance away then it will in turn be thrown farther than if you were beside the dog for instance. By "roving" I mean you can keep moving along and throwing it after each retrieve. Must be my irish roots lmao. Gypsy talk hahahaha
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:41 pm

I get the Gypsy part.
But From the dogs perception, what is he/she marking?

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by CDN_Cocker » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:02 pm

He's marking the dummy that you're throwing. Now I'm confused...
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:08 pm

Thanks for the responses. I want to lengthen her marks and I dont always have a partner with, and I'm unwilling to spend money on a launcher.

Gundogguy, I like the videos. And I realize 60 yards isn't long, but I had to pick an arbitrary minimum, and that just happens to be the farthest I can huck a bumper, so 60 was my number to beat.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by CDN_Cocker » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:47 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Thanks for the responses. I want to lengthen her marks and I dont always have a partner with, and I'm unwilling to spend money on a launcher.

Gundogguy, I like the videos. And I realize 60 yards isn't long, but I had to pick an arbitrary minimum, and that just happens to be the farthest I can huck a bumper, so 60 was my number to beat.
Thats why you just need to move farther away from the dog before you throw!
Cass
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:21 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Thanks for the responses. I want to lengthen her marks and I dont always have a partner with, and I'm unwilling to spend money on a launcher.

Gundogguy, I like the videos. And I realize 60 yards isn't long, but I had to pick an arbitrary minimum, and that just happens to be the farthest I can huck a bumper, so 60 was my number to beat.
Thats why you just need to move farther away from the dog before you throw!
That's what I've started to do. It just seems inefficient sometimes so I was hoping for another solution. I've also run her to the pile at distance to help her get used to going back further.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by gundogguy » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:49 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:Even without a launcher you can do roving marks. Sit the dog and walk 100 yards away and THEN throw the dummy
Do not start at 100yards That is crazy!
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by gundogguy » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:50 am

polmaise wrote:
CDN_Cocker wrote:Even without a launcher you can do roving marks. Sit the dog and walk 100 yards away and THEN throw the dummy
Roving Marks?
Is that like a 'memory'? retrieve?...What does the dog 'Mark' when you walk back?
Marking has nothing to do with memory. It has to do with looking out for the fall of the bumper or bird
Let me do some research I'll come up with some vids that demonstrate how to develop marking using the "Stand alone" method. which actually would be clearer if we called it ""sit alone". Where the dogs sits at one location and the handler moves away to throw marks at appropriate distances for the dog being worked with.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by gundogguy » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:09 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWLGfmoo2Zo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AQcdscdaew

In both these examples I have moved away from the dog, before the marks are thrown. That movement may continue until i have the dog marking at the distance that are my goal.60-80-100yrds or more. also this a great time as well to add factors such multiples and memory marks as well.
due to constrictions of this forum I will have add other vids in separate post.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by gundogguy » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:14 am

A continuation of marking drills...without the place board or table. Also in addition, steadiness and bird in mouth marking
Distances continue to increase. As a matter of course, during a pups development I very rarely throw a mark when standing next to pup. I want that pup to focus out and not in toward me. I usually always try to put some distance between me and my prodigy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhvzKtzSHoA

There is roughly a year between the video of zeta in the previous post and this post.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by mnaj_springer » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:49 am

Thanks again. It seems I will just keep doing what I'm doing unless I want to place train her like the Hillman videos. Clearly I'm not starting with 100 yard marks. I will build her up to that in open cover, then go through the same process in medium cover, and so on and so forth.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by crackerd » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:15 am

gundogguy wrote:A continuation of marking drills...without the place board or table. Also in addition, steadiness and bird in mouth marking
Distances continue to increase.
gundogguy, by my measure (and other retrieverites'), the best and maybe only use of placeboards in our game is when doing standalones or what used to be called "Poor man's marks" in the retriever world. Mr. Voigt of "RetrieversOnline" takes over from here: http://www.retrieversonline.com/standalone.htm

MG

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by gundogguy » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:45 am

MG, Denny Voight
has a fine video on training alone, based on that article in his Retrieveronline series. He is also a fine resource for solitary dog man.

Regardless of systems used the basics still must be in place in the dogs training. FF or an absolutely positive delivery to hand and Steadiness to wing and shot as well because eventually in the training some gun fire will take place. Basics must be secure before advanced training takes place or issue are bound to arise.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:03 pm

gundogguy wrote:
polmaise wrote:
CDN_Cocker wrote:Even without a launcher you can do roving marks. Sit the dog and walk 100 yards away and THEN throw the dummy
Roving Marks?
Is that like a 'memory'? retrieve?...What does the dog 'Mark' when you walk back?
Marking has nothing to do with memory. It has to do with looking out for the fall of the bumper or bird
Let me do some research I'll come up with some vids that demonstrate how to develop marking using the "Stand alone" method. which actually would be clearer if we called it ""sit alone". Where the dogs sits at one location and the handler moves away to throw marks at appropriate distances for the dog being worked with.
Many video links on this thread!
'A Mark is a Mark is a Mark' ! .That will be something that the 'dog' has absolutely seen! ?...Not necessarily the handler!
Every second that follows after that 'Mark' ,whether a blink of an eye or movement by the handler or anything else that takes the dogs 'eye from that mark' ,then ''Factors'' are introduced to make that 'mark' difficult and or confusing for the dog (imo) ..In training.
If the handler, remote sits the dog whilst a 'mark' is thrown at some distance from where the dog is to gain distance for a 'marked retrieve' ..the handler is only gaining distance for that retrieve, not gaining 'Learning to mark at a distance' (imo) ! The OP , may not have the inclination /desire or finances to use the tools that require aiding and training the dog to 'mark at distance' ?. But that should not require an alternative to suit the handlers preference .

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by mnaj_springer » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:16 pm

Polmaise, I already stated I'm unwilling to pay for a launcher. There's no speculation necessary.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:33 pm

Bird boy does the same thing :lol:

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by CDN_Cocker » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:40 pm

gundogguy wrote:
Do not start at 100yards That is crazy!
LOL GDG, I meant that as an example. Certainly you need to build up hahahaha
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by gonehuntin' » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:29 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Polmaise, I already stated I'm unwilling to pay for a launcher. There's no speculation necessary.
Perhaps you don't realize how little a hand held launcher costs? They are an exceptionally good way to teach marking because: 1) By varying the loads, you can vary the distance the bumper flies. 2) You can shoot multiples as the dog progresses. 3) The dog actually has to mark the location of the bumper, not a man in a jacket. 4) You steady the dog because you are shooting the bumper from your hand.

Dog's love them and it is truly a great way to train a dog. On full charge, they will shoot a bumper over 100 yards.

If you stay with retrieving breeds it is money very, very, well spent.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by Fun dog » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:38 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Polmaise, I already stated I'm unwilling to pay for a launcher. There's no speculation necessary.
Perhaps you don't realize how little a hand held launcher costs? They are an exceptionally good way to teach marking because: 1) By varying the loads, you can vary the distance the bumper flies. 2) You can shoot multiples as the dog progresses. 3) The dog actually has to mark the location of the bumper, not a man in a jacket. 4) You steady the dog because you are shooting the bumper from your hand.

Dog's love them and it is truly a great way to train a dog. On full charge, they will shoot a bumper over 100 yards.

If you stay with retrieving breeds it is money very, very, well spent.
This is so true. Best hundred bucks I ever spent. The dogs go crazy when they see the launchers and you can send them wherever you want. Get a couple extra bumpers for it and you can do doubles and triples as well. Also great for sending over the water for water work.

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by mnaj_springer » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:17 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Polmaise, I already stated I'm unwilling to pay for a launcher. There's no speculation necessary.
Perhaps you don't realize how little a hand held launcher costs? They are an exceptionally good way to teach marking because: 1) By varying the loads, you can vary the distance the bumper flies. 2) You can shoot multiples as the dog progresses. 3) The dog actually has to mark the location of the bumper, not a man in a jacket. 4) You steady the dog because you are shooting the bumper from your hand.

Dog's love them and it is truly a great way to train a dog. On full charge, they will shoot a bumper over 100 yards.

If you stay with retrieving breeds it is money very, very, well spent.
Good points but there are issues with this. 1) The dog is not marking downfield like I want if I launch from by the dog. 2) On public land you can be ticketed for the "gunfire" that comes with a launcher. 3) $100 May not be a lot to some people, but it is to me, especially when I have more pressing expenses.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:31 am

mnaj_springer wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Polmaise, I already stated I'm unwilling to pay for a launcher. There's no speculation necessary.
Perhaps you don't realize how little a hand held launcher costs? They are an exceptionally good way to teach marking because: 1) By varying the loads, you can vary the distance the bumper flies. 2) You can shoot multiples as the dog progresses. 3) The dog actually has to mark the location of the bumper, not a man in a jacket. 4) You steady the dog because you are shooting the bumper from your hand.

Dog's love them and it is truly a great way to train a dog. On full charge, they will shoot a bumper over 100 yards.

If you stay with retrieving breeds it is money very, very, well spent.
Good points but there are issues with this. 1) The dog is not marking downfield like I want if I launch from by the dog. 2) On public land you can be ticketed for the "gunfire" that comes with a launcher. 3) $100 May not be a lot to some people, but it is to me, especially when I have more pressing expenses.
Join a club ! But that ain't Free either.
Great way to have others supply the land and the equipment and the manpower to help those that can't do it on their own ,for whatever reason(s) .

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by mnaj_springer » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:06 pm

That's also a good idea. One I've already done. But I like to train more than once a week. Maybe if I liked training less and liked being a couch potato it wouldn't be an issue!
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:12 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Maybe if I liked training less and liked being a couch potato it wouldn't be an issue!
You could have found the answer to your Long marks -How to train ? :)
Personally I look forward to Training and the process , The end game is like I have to start all over again with the next one ! ..But different :wink:

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by gonehuntin' » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:38 pm

mnaj; NOTHING will teach a dog to mark like a hand held launcher. It is like every bird being a retired gun. Nothing simulates a true hunting condition as closely as a launcher. If you join a club, I'm sure somebody will lend you one. Public land should not be an issue; train on private land or national forest land.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by Swampbilly » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:29 am

mnaj_springer wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Polmaise, I already stated I'm unwilling to pay for a launcher. There's no speculation necessary.
Perhaps you don't realize how little a hand held launcher costs? They are an exceptionally good way to teach marking because: 1) By varying the loads, you can vary the distance the bumper flies. 2) You can shoot multiples as the dog progresses. 3) The dog actually has to mark the location of the bumper, not a man in a jacket. 4) You steady the dog because you are shooting the bumper from your hand.

Dog's love them and it is truly a great way to train a dog. On full charge, they will shoot a bumper over 100 yards.

If you stay with retrieving breeds it is money very, very, well spent.
Good points but there are issues with this. 1) The dog is not marking downfield like I want if I launch from by the dog. 2) On public land you can be ticketed for the "gunfire" that comes with a launcher. 3) $100 May not be a lot to some people, but it is to me, especially when I have more pressing expenses.
Your dog is not looking out or marking downfield because bumpers simply don't make it "downfield" coming from your side hand thrown.
Hopefully your dog is watching and looking at the bumper when it leaves your hand and stays focused on it even after it hits the ground, ( whether beside you or not).
Good on 'ya for wanting to challenge pup on marking, and longer distance marking , but sooner or later you've got to get marks out in front of your dog.
Get dog on a remote SIT, walk out and let 'er rip.
If pup breaks from SIT before you get the distance, walk right back and get dog right back with proper corrections.
Get a launcher!

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by chrokeva » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:07 pm

Swampbilly wrote:Your dog is not looking out or marking downfield because bumpers simply don't make it "downfield" coming from your side hand thrown.
Hopefully your dog is watching and looking at the bumper when it leaves your hand and stays focused on it even after it hits the ground, ( whether beside you or not).
Good on 'ya for wanting to challenge pup on marking, and longer distance marking , but sooner or later you've got to get marks out in front of your dog.
Get dog on a remote SIT, walk out and let 'er rip.
If pup breaks from SIT before you get the distance, walk right back and get dog right back with proper corrections.
Get a launcher!
This makes a lot of sense to me. Think I will stick with teaching marks with my lucky launcher.
I was told to start by launching downwind until the pup got the idea of running past the dummy (assuming she can't see it) and hunting back upwind to find it. After she got that idea I should start launching the dummy incrementally up from a downwind to a cross wind to help teach the dog to run downwind of her mark. Does this sound about right? I am sure there are many pieces I am missing.

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by Swampbilly » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:58 pm

Nuthin' in the world wrong with a set up that'll get pup to check in, but you're interested, ( if I read right) in enhancing pups marking skills. You want your dog to trust it's eyes. , not so much relying on it's nose to find marks in a featureless field with no cover.
If it were me, I'd not worry about the wind so much in a featureless field. Once confidence with pup is built and pup is successful, then would think about graduating to cover and wind direction factors.
In other words-
If pup needs to use his greatest asset, (it's nose) in a low cover featureless area, then it's not marking well from the git go.

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by chrokeva » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:31 pm

Swampbilly wrote:Nuthin' in the world wrong with a set up that'll get pup to check in, but you're interested, ( if I read right) in enhancing pups marking skills. You want your dog to trust it's eyes. , not so much relying on it's nose to find marks in a featureless field with no cover.
If it were me, I'd not worry about the wind so much in a featureless field. Once confidence with pup is built and pup is successful, then would think about graduating to cover and wind direction factors.
In other words-
If pup needs to use his greatest asset, (it's nose) in a low cover featureless area, then it's not marking well from the git go.
I guess I was talking more about marking in cover where wind direction may be a factor.
My pup does use her eyes when on a featureless field with no cover...here is a video with my pup done about a month ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBP5jSoBeOs
We did many of these "featureless" marks doing the marks in a order of distance of short, long, long, short and then pulling off the tails of the dummy (amazing how much further they go without those tails. We have now moved to cover and if all is perfect she will mark directly to the spot but many times the cover is too heavy for her to visual find the dummy which is why I believe she should run slightly downwind of her mark?
Also if there is a crosswind and she takes a line say 2 yards off on the downwind side of where she has marked...is she wrong? She does not always do this but I have seen her take a line slightly downwind of the mark and then come up right on the dummy and I am not sure if this is correct or not?

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by CDN_Cocker » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:50 pm

chrokeva wrote:
Swampbilly wrote:Your dog is not looking out or marking downfield because bumpers simply don't make it "downfield" coming from your side hand thrown.
Hopefully your dog is watching and looking at the bumper when it leaves your hand and stays focused on it even after it hits the ground, ( whether beside you or not).
Good on 'ya for wanting to challenge pup on marking, and longer distance marking , but sooner or later you've got to get marks out in front of your dog.
Get dog on a remote SIT, walk out and let 'er rip.
If pup breaks from SIT before you get the distance, walk right back and get dog right back with proper corrections.
Get a launcher!
This makes a lot of sense to me. Think I will stick with teaching marks with my lucky launcher.
I was told to start by launching downwind until the pup got the idea of running past the dummy (assuming she can't see it) and hunting back upwind to find it. After she got that idea I should start launching the dummy incrementally up from a downwind to a cross wind to help teach the dog to run downwind of her mark. Does this sound about right? I am sure there are many pieces I am missing.
That's teaching hunting, not marking. You want the dog to trust its eyes when marking, not its nose. There are other drills for teaching hunting. A dog that is stopping short or blowing past the dummy is not marking it effectively
Cass
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:58 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote: A dog that is stopping short or blowing past the dummy is not marking it effectively
Well ,that part can't be argued with!
But I don't think that was meant in the context. :wink:

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by CDN_Cocker » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:02 pm

Maybe chroveka can elaborate more. Sounded to me like teaching the dog to go "downwind" of a mark is not teaching the dog to mark. Otherwise the dog would go straight to it... not downwind or crosswind. A cocker doesn't need to train their nose much - they're vacuums. But you may be right, maybe I misunderstood
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:12 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote: Otherwise the dog would go straight to it... not downwind or crosswind. A cocker doesn't need to train their nose much - they're vacuums.
:) Cockers , shmockers ,poodles and every cross breed in the world learn to train their nose . But with a mark ' It's the eyes, that tell the nose to switch off!?....er' well the training actually :P ..Downwind/crosswind .tailwind and Mary Poppins change of the wind!...
But I think I said much the same earlier in this thread :roll: :wink:

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by chrokeva » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:19 pm

I doubt very much I am right since I am still learning and just asking questions :wink:
My question is in heavy cover or a tree line where a dog can mark the vicinity of the bird/dummy but they actually did not see the bird/dummy hit the ground a good marking dog seems to be able to mark the area of the fall.....would it be correct for the dog to take a line downwind of the fall?

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:24 pm

chrokeva wrote: My question is in heavy cover or a tree line where a dog can mark the vicinity of the bird/dummy but they actually did not see the bird/dummy hit the ground a good marking dog seems to be able to mark the area of the fall
If you keep adding 'factors' to the equation you will get complicated results .

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by chrokeva » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:28 pm

polmaise wrote:
chrokeva wrote: My question is in heavy cover or a tree line where a dog can mark the vicinity of the bird/dummy but they actually did not see the bird/dummy hit the ground a good marking dog seems to be able to mark the area of the fall
If you keep adding 'factors' to the equation you will get complicated results .

haha so true! I am really confusing myself now :) It is all those "factors" that confuse me. If all training was done on a flat field learning would be so much simpler.

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by chrokeva » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:46 pm

CDN you may be right about not having to train this. I don't doubt that most of these dogs have exceptional noses so training may be more for me than the dog.

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by Swampbilly » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:37 pm

chrokeva wrote:
Swampbilly wrote:Your dog is not looking out or marking downfield because bumpers simply don't make it "downfield" coming from your side hand thrown.
Hopefully your dog is watching and looking at the bumper when it leaves your hand and stays focused on it even after it hits the ground, ( whether beside you or not).
Good on 'ya for wanting to challenge pup on marking, and longer distance marking , but sooner or later you've got to get marks out in front of your dog.
Get dog on a remote SIT, walk out and let 'er rip.
If pup breaks from SIT before you get the distance, walk right back and get dog right back with proper corrections.
Get a launcher!
This makes a lot of sense to me. Think I will stick with teaching marks with my lucky launcher.
I was told to start by launching downwind until the pup got the idea of running past the dummy (assuming she can't see it) and hunting back upwind to find it. After she got that idea I should start launching the dummy incrementally up from a downwind to a cross wind to help teach the dog to run downwind of her mark. Does this sound about right? I am sure there are many pieces I am missing.
Yes this sounds right...but keep pup successful with it's eyes and save advanced stuff for later. You may get to a point when you'll run the dog directly into the wind, but that's getting into more advanced stuff. Again just keep challenging marks, (like in cover), downwind, concepts taught clearly, and screw crosswinds and all that for now.
You're not "teaching" pup to 'run past marks", it does it because of the wind pushing the dog and it's not checking.
When a dog marks you let him take his line. You don't want to handle on marks.
On blinds YOU will give him a line.
Your dog is simply fading or drifting off of it's own line to a mark. Factors such as wind, terrain, cover, objects, etc., can cause it.
Sounds like pup checked in naturally and came up with the prize!
When you start running blinds straighter lines will be important, as pup will cave in to factors. And then wind is important.
You DON'T want pup to have it's nose to the ground 10yds out on a 75yd blind :wink:
Last edited by Swampbilly on Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by Swampbilly » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:40 pm

Back to your original question(s)-
mnaj_springer wrote:I'm wondering how folks here train for long marks (over 60 yards, for all intents and purposes). I'm especially interested in how people do so without a training partner present.
Would consider getting some concepts on the table. You keep giving pup long marks ALL the time you can back yourself into a corner.
Good marking skills isn't all about distance. It's the quality (not quantity), of marks, and about introducing concepts. Don't get me wrong there will be plenty of REPS!
For example multiple marks-, short, long, and longer (for triples), and the order in which they're picked up. The shorter marks once picked up punch the dog out farther to next mark.
Noticed in the vid your dog is very eager!
Make sure you don't run her to the same ole', same 'ole meaningless marks in the same place over and over again. It get's boring for the dog.
Make 'em count, and keep her successful.

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by chrokeva » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:51 am

Swampbilly wrote:Back to your original question(s)-
mnaj_springer wrote:I'm wondering how folks here train for long marks (over 60 yards, for all intents and purposes). I'm especially interested in how people do so without a training partner present.
Would consider getting some concepts on the table. You keep giving pup long marks ALL the time you can back yourself into a corner.
Good marking skills isn't all about distance. It's the quality (not quantity), of marks, and about introducing concepts. Don't get me wrong there will be plenty of REPS!
For example multiple marks-, short, long, and longer (for triples), and the order in which they're picked up. The shorter marks once picked up punch the dog out farther to next mark.
Noticed in the vid your dog is very eager!
Make sure you don't run her to the same ole', same 'ole meaningless marks in the same place over and over again. It get's boring for the dog.
Make 'em count, and keep her successful.
This information is very helpful....it seems I could right a book with what I do not know about marks. I am thinking I need to do some more research on training marks before going too much further in her training on this.
I am a bit confused by your statement "getting some concepts on the table"? Could you elaborate?

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by mnaj_springer » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:10 am

Swampbilly wrote:Back to your original question(s)-
mnaj_springer wrote:I'm wondering how folks here train for long marks (over 60 yards, for all intents and purposes). I'm especially interested in how people do so without a training partner present.
Would consider getting some concepts on the table. You keep giving pup long marks ALL the time you can back yourself into a corner.
Good marking skills isn't all about distance. It's the quality (not quantity), of marks, and about introducing concepts. Don't get me wrong there will be plenty of REPS!
For example multiple marks-, short, long, and longer (for triples), and the order in which they're picked up. The shorter marks once picked up punch the dog out farther to next mark.
Noticed in the vid your dog is very eager!
Make sure you don't run her to the same ole', same 'ole meaningless marks in the same place over and over again. It get's boring for the dog.
Make 'em count, and keep her successful.
I didn't post a video... Or was that directed at someone else?
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by Swampbilly » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:21 am

mnaj_springer wrote:
Swampbilly wrote:Back to your original question(s)-
mnaj_springer wrote:I'm wondering how folks here train for long marks (over 60 yards, for all intents and purposes). I'm especially interested in how people do so without a training partner present.
Would consider getting some concepts on the table. You keep giving pup long marks ALL the time you can back yourself into a corner.
Good marking skills isn't all about distance. It's the quality (not quantity), of marks, and about introducing concepts. Don't get me wrong there will be plenty of REPS!
For example multiple marks-, short, long, and longer (for triples), and the order in which they're picked up. The shorter marks once picked up punch the dog out farther to next mark.
Noticed in the vid your dog is very eager!
Make sure you don't run her to the same ole', same 'ole meaningless marks in the same place over and over again. It get's boring for the dog.
Make 'em count, and keep her successful.
I didn't post a video... Or was that directed at someone else?
Crap Springer-
Got my wires crossed, sorry 'bout that! :oops:

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by polmaise » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:11 pm

You guy's appear to be on the right line now :)

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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:20 pm

Looking at your video, I'm not sure I understand the problem. I would NOT have the person stand behind me and fire the launcher, I'd prefer to do it myelf.

Dog's ALWAYS fade with the wind; down wind, cross wind, up wind. That is natural and they will always do it. That is not always a good thing if you are going to run the dog in trials.

Use stick men. It'll teach the dog to look out in the field.

Don't run the dog ALONG tree lines or ditches. Everytime they get to an obstacle like that, they'll want to run down it. Try to better explain what you're concerned with. I'm really not sure I understand it.
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Re: Long Marks- How to train

Post by Swampbilly » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:20 pm

chrokeva wrote:
Swampbilly wrote:Back to your original question(s)-
mnaj_springer wrote:I'm wondering how folks here train for long marks (over 60 yards, for all intents and purposes). I'm especially interested in how people do so without a training partner present.
Would consider getting some concepts on the table. You keep giving pup long marks ALL the time you can back yourself into a corner.
Good marking skills isn't all about distance. It's the quality (not quantity), of marks, and about introducing concepts. Don't get me wrong there will be plenty of REPS!
For example multiple marks-, short, long, and longer (for triples), and the order in which they're picked up. The shorter marks once picked up punch the dog out farther to next mark.
Noticed in the vid your dog is very eager!
Make sure you don't run her to the same ole', same 'ole meaningless marks in the same place over and over again. It get's boring for the dog.
Make 'em count, and keep her successful.
This information is very helpful....it seems I could right a book with what I do not know about marks. I am thinking I need to do some more research on training marks before going too much further in her training on this.
I am a bit confused by your statement "getting some concepts on the table"? Could you elaborate?
I got you and 'Springer, (OP), "cross wired", (my bad).
What I'm suggesting is to consider taking things a little farther, crank things up a notch and include some fundamental marking concepts in your training.
You'll never regret it.
As Gonehuntin' mentioned, be aware of different things that create factors. Ditches, tree lines, old roads, and old area of falls, can create suction.

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