Send my GSP away or train myself

Post Reply
rover24
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:42 pm
Location: Summerville SC

Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by rover24 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:25 am

I have a 5 month old GSP, we have been working with a trainer in the field since 9 weeks every other week, I work him on the weekends we don't see the trainer.
He has great drive, his nose is good, no problem with gunfire, pretty reliable "here", just began collar work.

The trainer wants me to drop him off for a month of "whoa" training, then 4-6 weeks of forced fetch. I enjoy working with the dog and would hate to miss that training with him. I have read and watched training material, I have a good understanding of the process and how to work with dogs but don't want to screw up a good dog due to lack of experience.

Things I have-
- a place to train
-pigeons
-books and dvd's

Things I don't have-
- More than 30 minutes per day during the week (yard work only, no field)
- More than a few hours on the weekends
- Experience

Any advice, stories about training a good dog without experience would be helpful.
Thanks
Ed

RayGubernat
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3191
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Central DE

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:00 pm

If you have 30 minutes a day to spend with your dog, that should be PLENTY.

I would get a Smith Wonder lead or heeling stick and do five to eight minutes of heel/whoa drills in the morning and tenminutes of heel/whoa drills every night. That still leaves you plenty of time to scoop the poop, feed and water and PLAY with your pup. I developed field trial competitor, actually several field trial competitors withten minutes in the morning and ten at night... and I lived in a subdivision on a 100X125 piece of property. I was only able to run the dogs in fields on the weekends and I got it done.

Five months old is pretty young to get into formal "whoa " training, I think. Six or seven months old is also pretty young to get into force fetching in my view.

Make friends with the youngster first. Have fun with the dog. Get the dog to WANT to be with you. THEN, it will WANT to do what you want it to do.

Look for a local training group, like NAVHDA. Watch and learn, both what to do, and more importantly, what NOT TO DO. There are some really good amateurs out there. Just don't press a young dog too hard... too soon... or you may squeeze all the joy out of the dog and turn it into a machine.

Where are you located?

RayG

User avatar
luvthemud
Rank: Champion
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:54 pm
Location: The Holyland, WI

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by luvthemud » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:07 pm

In am in the relatively same boat. I have access to birds and fields, however the time and experience is what I don't have. Tough decision.

User avatar
Fun dog
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 am
Location: Alaska

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by Fun dog » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:50 pm

If you have 30 minutes a day you can train the dog yourself. The bond you develop with your dog in the process will be much greater than if you have a trainer do the work for you. That said, a good program is essential to follow. I found the perfect start/finish set to be easy to understand for a beginner. Follow up with a clinic if you can and by all means check for a local NAVHDA group in your area. Now if you find you're having trouble in a certain area, that may be the time to call in help.

Gator_McClusky
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by Gator_McClusky » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:22 pm

I'm also in the same situation and am training the dog myself (along with a weekly NAVHDA OB class) and my dog is coming along nicely after a year. I agree with everybody else that 10 minutes of work at the end of the morning walk and 10 minutes at night is fine. This is a process and the dogs take time and patience. There are no shortcuts.

You will never learn how to train a dog yourself if you don't train a dog yourself. These creatures are amazingly resilient and hard to screw up if you go slowly and steadily. Have fun and don't turn the screws too hard early on.

I also concur with the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish DVDs recommendation. Great resource.

rover24
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:42 pm
Location: Summerville SC

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by rover24 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:33 pm

Thanks all,
You all seem to confirm what I was thinking.
I'm outside Charleston SC, I'll look into NAVHAD. If there are clubs around here I haven't had luck finding them, lots of retriever clubs though. Fortunately this forum is here!

I just got a wonder lead, he's adjusting to it great but it's not transferring over to regular leash walking yet.
I will get the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish DVDs, so far I have read How to Speed Train Your Dog and watched the Hickox 4 volume set.


Here's a pic of Rutledge or "Rut" when in the field

Image[quote][/quote]

User avatar
CDN_Cocker
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1383
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:59 pm
Location: ON, Canada

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by CDN_Cocker » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:06 pm

Sounds like you have plenty of time and the resources you need. I think you should try on your own, you can always seek out a pro later on if you need help.
Cass
"If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." - Rex Carr

User avatar
migratesouth
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:55 am
Location: NC - USA

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by migratesouth » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:08 pm

The Carolinas Chapter covers SC and they train there the 4th Saturday each month.

http://rodneydecker.vpweb.com/
Ripsnorter's Indiana Jones :: http://imgur.com/a/fzQAO

rover24
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:42 pm
Location: Summerville SC

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by rover24 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:13 pm

migratesouth wrote:The Carolinas Chapter covers SC and they train there the 4th Saturday each month.

http://rodneydecker.vpweb.com/
I was just looking at there site, excuse my ignorance but do I need to become a member on the main NAVHDA site then become a chapter member?

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 8293
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by Sharon » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:06 pm

You can't train yourself. Most men need a women to train them. :wink:

( Sorry. too much coffee)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote

Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1873
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by Trekmoor » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:35 am

While I appreciate that you do not want to "ruin" your pup by training it yourself I still think you should train him yourself. It is the best way for you to learn. Even the pro trainers had to learn to do it themselves. Try to find a knowledgeable person who already trains this breed with some success and go to him/her with the pup then train the pup yourself with guidance. I think the satisfaction gained by doing your own training is far greater than having a pro do the training for you....not sure about the F.F. training though. I don't F.F. train but I think it might cause problems if you make mistakes.

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

User avatar
markj
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:36 pm
Location: Crescent Iowa

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by markj » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:00 am

NAVDHA trainers will help you to train. That's a good group to join.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1103
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

User avatar
Brazosvalleyvizslas
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1340
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:20 am
Location: Soon2be, Texas

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:58 am

markj wrote:NAVDHA trainers will help you to train. That's a good group to join.
That depends on the Chapter... The SoCal Chapter is full of a bunch of Idiots (same with East Texas) that will ruin dogs faster than any novice. I would go observe first without your dog and watch what they do. I took a new owner to a training day and they put the young dog on the tailgate to demonstrate Force Fetch. Sorry, but you don't demonstrate Force Fetch with a dog that hasn't been through it, especially with 1st time owners. Needless to say, they never went back and neither did we.

There are some good Chapters but there are terrible ones also. Your better off looking into your local GSP club and seeing what is available.

User avatar
MillerClemsonHD
Rank: Champion
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Greenville South Carolina

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by MillerClemsonHD » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:20 pm

Ed,

Check out our club as well. We are working on some additional things beyond the trials we put on and will have details on our website as soon as we finalize plans.

https://www.facebook.com/CarolinasPoint ... ssociation


As for your training question it is more a matter of what you feel comfortable doing. If you are going to be busy and not have the time to accomplish what you want or get to a part of the training you are not comfortable doing yourself then that is the time to use a pro. If you are comfortable achieving the results yourself then do it yourself, especially if you are willing to ask for help if you need it at some point in the process.

I highly recommend the book "Training with Mo" Mo is a member of our club as well.
http://lindleykennel.com/

His book is available on Gun Dog Supply.

If you have any questions send me a PM or post here I will be glad to help if I can.

Doug Miller
President CPDA

User avatar
markj
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:36 pm
Location: Crescent Iowa

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by markj » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:54 pm

That depends on the Chapter
The chapter here close to me has some great folks in it. But then this is Iowa :) We are a bunch of happy people here. I been to SoCal :( I prefer No Cal any day of the week. Was in Petaluma awhile ago, very nice country there.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1103
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

User avatar
mtlhdr
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:32 am
Location: NorCal

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by mtlhdr » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:09 pm

One thing not mentioned is that even if you send your dog off for training it likely won't be finished or stay finished. So you will have to continue to work with your dog regardless. No doubt a good trainer will likely move your dog along in its training faster, but you'll still have a critical role to play once you get the dog back.

rover24
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:42 pm
Location: Summerville SC

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by rover24 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:18 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:Ed,

Check out our club as well. We are working on some additional things beyond the trials we put on and will have details on our website as soon as we finalize plans.

https://www.facebook.com/CarolinasPoint ... ssociation


As for your training question it is more a matter of what you feel comfortable doing. If you are going to be busy and not have the time to accomplish what you want or get to a part of the training you are not comfortable doing yourself then that is the time to use a pro. If you are comfortable achieving the results yourself then do it yourself, especially if you are willing to ask for help if you need it at some point in the process.

I highly recommend the book "Training with Mo" Mo is a member of our club as well.
http://lindleykennel.com/

His book is available on Gun Dog Supply.

If you have any questions send me a PM or post here I will be glad to help if I can.

Doug Miller
President CPDA

Thanks, I'll check out the book and Facebook page, and thanks all for being active in the forum and people like myself out.

User avatar
Big bloc
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:36 am
Location: Inman,kansas

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by Big bloc » Fri May 01, 2015 6:44 am

15 years ago I thought about the same thing. I went and talked to a trainer and he told me that the dog is the easy part. That I was the 1 that needed trained. He asked me if i raised kids and i told him yes. He said that I could train a dog. I am sure glad I took his advice. I have trained 2 gun dogs now. O yes they are house dogs. I did spend a lot of time reading but it paid off. Good luck
Never ever tease a gundog. Build rapport

JAG06
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:25 pm
Location: Albany, TX

Re: Send my GSP away or train myself

Post by JAG06 » Fri May 01, 2015 7:41 am

Hi,
I train gun dogs for a living and just wanted to offer my advice as IMO most what you read in magazines and on the net puts the cart before the horse. I am 100% sure that if I read the articles and saw the videos now available about training bird dogs when I started out, then there is no way I would ever have started training. It is also IMO diametrically opposite to what upland hunting is all about, watching a good dog work, whirl around and slam on the breaks into a breathtaking point - and the world stands still for a few seconds. Starting a bird dog is and should be just as much fun and a great experience for dog and owner. Not some dreary regime with lines and equipment in a back yard.

One does not train a pointing dog, one develops the dog. What people take as "training" - the steadying, launchers, lines, helpers and all that that has NOTHING to do with you getting a bird dog. It is just teaching some skills when you already have a bird dog. So please forget about your yard work for now, and the less experience you have the later you do it. It is a huge difference if you are doing field trials and expect to wash out 49 dogs for each dog you keep. Training a hunting dog is about maximizing the dog you already have, not pushing the dog and looking for a reason to wash them out.

Most important is to let the dog develop, get independent and have FUN watching the dog learn about scent, cover and birds. Your main job as starting a bird dog is to facilitate the right environment and give the dog the opportunity to develop what drives and instincts the dog already has. IMO also, from reading these boards, people really have to relax and stop stressing about what their dogs do around birds. If the dog catches a bird, so what ? Gives more drive and you just got a few days extra work. No big deal, and some dogs benefit tremendously. If your dog chases birds out of the county every day for a month, what is the problem? Believe me, that is an easy fix compared to some poor pup that received yard work and pigeons every day and never been in a real field chasing some game birds !

All you need is enough land that you do not stress about catching the dog, enough that you can start a dog before you have much control and you not doing harmful things to your dog because you are concerned about the dogs safety. Just enough that you can go out and have fun. Then you need some sort of game bird, released or wild - but enough that you in the beginning can get the pup on birds within a few minutes . You get him on birds 3 times a session for 30 days, you are starting to get a bird dog. There is NO magic formula or shortcuts. I can get a dog on birds 100 times in a month because I have the setup and facilities - if you can not then just do the same over 5 months. Of course better to do on consecutive days, but you just have to work with what you got.

If you want an easy, foolproof way of getting your dog a great start - it is that easy. Most important thing you will ever do with your dogs is what you do NOT do ! Do not force the situation, do not try to inhibit the dogs behaviors and "train" a dog that has never gotten a chance even to start being a bird dog.

The important things you can not teach the dog, your job is only to give the dog the environment in which it can tech itself. And if you put the cart before the horse and do a "yard program" and leave out the import part then all you do is take away from your dogs potential from day one.

Just relax and look for your dog showing that he is ready for breaking. If you break something that has nothing put into it first, what you end up with is not a broke dog but a broken one ! A dog that has been wasted because he never got a chance to develop the potential he had genetically.

At least that is my opinion (-:





rover24 wrote:I have a 5 month old GSP, we have been working with a trainer in the field since 9 weeks every other week, I work him on the weekends we don't see the trainer.
He has great drive, his nose is good, no problem with gunfire, pretty reliable "here", just began collar work.

The trainer wants me to drop him off for a month of "whoa" training, then 4-6 weeks of forced fetch. I enjoy working with the dog and would hate to miss that training with him. I have read and watched training material, I have a good understanding of the process and how to work with dogs but don't want to screw up a good dog due to lack of experience.

Things I have-
- a place to train
-pigeons
-books and dvd's

Things I don't have-
- More than 30 minutes per day during the week (yard work only, no field)
- More than a few hours on the weekends
- Experience

Any advice, stories about training a good dog without experience would be helpful.
Thanks
Ed

Post Reply