Training Help

[ohsq]

I have stared working my 9 month old Brittany on Pigeons. He is my first bird dog so any help is appreciated. What i do is place a pigeon in a small wire cage, and hide it in some cover. I check cord my pup into the area where the bird is and when he is smelling the bird in the cage I throw a pigeon and let him chase. When he is chasing that pigeon, I shoot a .22 blank. Today he was almost on top of the bird before he realized it was there. Showed a couple seconds on interest and laid down. He did give a little chase when i threw the bird and ignored my .22 and then continued to run a while. Am I off to the right start with this pup?? Too much?? Too Little?? What do you guys think?? Thanks for the advice. Being a newbie I'm sure this won't be my last "help" question!!!

[Sharon]

Welcome to the forum. Feel free to ask any questions you want. We were all newbies once.

I don't know why you haven't received any help here, my reason is that I am not sure where to start.

I 'll make some suggestions and hopefully the more experienced will critique.

1/ I don't think you have done any harm , but I've never heard of a bird dog being trained that way.
Highly recommend you buy a programme like " Training with Mo" or "Perfect Start. Perfect Finish". ( Google)

2/ If he is laying down on scent , he is confused. Take a few steps backwards. Lighten up on the pressure.
Forget the cage and plant birds as is normally done. A launcher makes this process so much more effective, but if you don't have a launcher see the thread below.

3/ You were right in only shooting when he is in chase but pup doesn't seem to be "bird crazy" enough yet for the gun. If I can find it, there is a good thread on helping pup to get "bird crazy" if it is in him.

It's a learning process for the pup and you. Enjoy.++

viewtopic.php?f=89&t=49004...................( help with bird crazy)

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=49045&p=453871#p453871..................( dizzying pigeons)

[RichK]

Where are you located?

[ohsq]

Thanks for the advice, appreciate the help. The whole pigeon in a cage was my solutions to keeping him in one place. The other birds i planted were out in plain sight walking around. I use it just like a kick cage but instead of kicking the bird up I throw one for him to chase. I am getting some quail to work him on in a couple weeks. I am located in northwest ohio. I will keep working him and try to get the dizzy bird thing down.

[gundogguy]

pigeon planting for pointing dogs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eGw4kmXxVQ

Planting pigeons for flushing dogs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBrThQ5xOZQ

[DonF]

If I were to guess, you are confusing him. I suspect he know's the bird on the ground never left. I'd think that is the one to flush, not one your carrying with you. With remote's you can make a pigeon act pretty much like a game bird. Without them I'd do a lot of whoa work first or get a helper to flush the bird. With the whoa, when he hit's the bird, just shut up unless he tries to move in, probably will. Don't try to walk past him to flush the bird, you get a little bit to the front and you allow him loose cord. You come in from the side and you keep tension on the cord. If he breaks then, you can pull him off the bird right away. Best would be to get a helper. You control the dog and the helper flush's for you.

[RickB]

Training can be a confusing thing, esp with your first dog.

Getting a recipe plan like Sharon suggested is a great way to take the confusion out of it. If you've never trained an animal before, a recipe is the best way to do it.

I may be confused, but it kind of sounds like you need a plan.

You want to have a good idea as to what it is you are trying to accomplish with each training activity. With each activity...each training session, you want to be able to answer these questions: a) what do i want the dog to learn from this b) How will I know if the dog has learned it? c) is the training activity really teaching what I want the dog to learn?

So, for your activity that you described...are you trying to bring out the dog's point? Are you trying to get the dog to chase? Are you trying to break the dog to the gun?

If you don't know what the goal is for the training, there is no way for the dog to know what the goal is.

RickB

[ohsq]

Thanks, your advice is greatly appreciated. I have trained a few hunting dogs just not a bird dog, and its an adventure, ha ha. The positive thing is that I have not been going hog wild with training sessions. Just starting to introduce him to birds. I will take some time to get a recipe and game plan and go from there. Thanks Again!!!

[setterpoint]

ithink donf is right the dog knows the bird is still there. I wood tuck the birds head under the wing and shake it lightly for about 10 sec then plant the bird cover it lightly to much will kill the scent lead the dog cross wind and at this time have help you work the dog the helper flush the bird this would be a lot better if you can get a launcher

[DonF]

I think there is one huge mistake the majority of trainer's make. They try to read to much into it! Take the whoa command for instance. It's a simple exercise really. Never understood the barrel method until Holly loaned me her Sherri Ebert tape on whoa breaking on a barrel, suddenly it came into focus! heck. I could do that. I use the original Delmar Smith whoa post. The idea is to have the dog stop and stand still when given the command. Now you can screw it up but you'd have to think about it some. Your out training on pigeon's or what ever it again is a simple thing. You go in to get the bird out and the pup is doing fine. so you tempt it a bit and your dog breaks. What's the deal with that? You just did something that odds are are going to make the dog break and it did Lot of people call that proofing. Go to an AKC field trial and watch the dog's on point. They are broke but most lack intensity. The trainer take's that out breaking the dog. So you end up with a dog that just pretty much stand's there, doesn't trip my trigger. Two thing's from Delmar, pay attention to what your training and the rule of KISS, keep it simple stupid!

[Francois P vd Walt]

Remember to have fun!
All dogs mature at some point the secret is to let the dog develop on its own time no trainer can hurry it on without paying a penalty. Don is right they become robots with no spirit this way they loose their natural style and drive. IMO most people rush young dogs let them develop in the bigger picture you might wait up to 14 months or more this way your dog will come to its full potential. Sure one can tweak them by running them on ground with little birds so their confidence can grow and realise you the fun guy once they understand all this and start hunting then apply pressure as needed plant birds and work on style etc...my 2c