Pigeon or quail

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Pheasanttracker
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Pigeon or quail

Post by Pheasanttracker » Wed May 06, 2015 11:25 am

I was wondering on others thoughts as to whether I should use quail or pigeons for training my dog. I used quail last summer with no problems. I see quite s bit of folks use pigeons. Is one more preferable then the other. I used quail because of the price $4 a piece and they flew back to a pen I had. I figure pigeons will do that also.

I have a 2yr old Pudelpointer.


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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Moulders Farm » Wed May 06, 2015 12:17 pm

I use both but only because the pigions are homers & I can use them over & over at the cost of feeding them but if the quail would return just as good as the Pigions . I would use the Quail the most or always . The reason most people use pigions is because it is a lot cheaper , & they use the same birds over & over again ,& you have to have specail permits to keep & use quail on Mo. Which also means the conv agent can come check you any time & useally does come -at least 1 time a year at renual time good & bad because you get to know him a little more personal .

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ezzy333 » Wed May 06, 2015 1:08 pm

Moulders Farm wrote:I use both but only because the pigions are homers & I can use them over & over at the cost of feeding them but if the quail would return just as good as the Pigions . I would use the Quail the most or always . The reason most people use pigions is because it is a lot cheaper , & they use the same birds over & over again ,& you have to have specail permits to keep & use quail on Mo. Which also means the conv agent can come check you any time & useally does come -at least 1 time a year at renual time good & bad because you get to know him a little more personal .
Plus the pigeons fly much better, more like a wild pheasant or Chukar.
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Sharon » Wed May 06, 2015 1:45 pm

Less likely for a dog to catch a HARD FLYING pigeon than a quail. imo
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by gundogguy » Wed May 06, 2015 1:50 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Moulders Farm wrote:
Plus the pigeons fly much better, more like a wild pheasant or Chukar.
+1.5 Also when developing and teaching marking on a bird for retrieving purposes. That has been flushed and then shot, you will be able to "ride" a pigeon out to edges of shotgun range and set-up a proper retrieve for your pup. Really difficult to "ride" quail any appropriate distances at all for retrieving purposes.

This video clip show a young dog being challenge with a 70 yrd mark. Coming off a very bold flush and being perfectly steady to wing and shot.
Training session was April 2014

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by SetterNut » Wed May 06, 2015 5:32 pm

I use them both. Quail until the pup gets old enough to catch them,
Then pigeons until I get the chase out of the dog, and then quail again to "finish" the them.
Steve

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Pigeon or quail

Post by Pheasanttracker » Thu May 07, 2015 11:17 am

Thanks for the comments. I would agree the quail don't go far. Even with s launcher I can point the same bird 3 or 4 times in a morning before it flys any real distance. After a while the dog does just wants to grab it. Any idea best place to get pigeons Not aware of any in my area of NE PA

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by gundogguy » Thu May 07, 2015 2:19 pm

Pheasanttracker wrote:Thanks for the comments. I would agree the quail don't go far. Even with s launcher I can point the same bird 3 or 4 times in a morning before it flys any real distance. After a while the dog does just wants to grab it. Any idea best place to get pigeons Not aware of any in my area of NE PA
Craig's List for one place. and If you are at least in some close approximation to a Amish community in PA. Over the years i have purchased some 50,000 pigeons from the Indiana Amish In North East Indiana.
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by JAG06 » Thu May 07, 2015 5:00 pm

Pheasanttracker wrote:I was wondering on others thoughts as to whether I should use quail or pigeons for training my dog. I used quail last summer with no problems. I see quite s bit of folks use pigeons. Is one more preferable then the other. I used quail because of the price $4 a piece and they flew back to a pen I had. I figure pigeons will do that also.

I have a 2yr old Pudelpointer.


Recommendations?

IMO quail - no question. Training a bird on game birds much to prefer. You have to have really, really bad pen raised quail before they fly slow motion like a pigeon. The excitement and drive you can create in a young dog with quail that explode out when flushed (I never use launchers - only train hunting dogs) can not IMO be replicated with pigeons.

And not to forget - when you starting a dog they are learning to hunt and how to use their nose. Learning about scent, cover etc. That they can not do in any practical sense if not the birds choose the cover - they have to learn how to find birds and find them in the locations birds choose to take cover - not where we place them out.

When one does not have a lot of wild birds to train on then the best IMO is to get some Johnny houses. My birds fly out a couple hundred yards on average, choose their own cover and provide a much better learning environment than any placed out birds.

Dogs have to learn how discriminate scent from where the birds were, but moved from the actual location. Only way they learn that is by using birds that can move. And all this they have to learn IMO before you put any pressure on Whoa .

Also makes for a much more fun way to train your dog, watching him learn about birds, scent and hunting - watching your dog developing into a bird dog. Teaching a dog to stand still on command is just a tiny part of developing a bird dog - and IMO certainly the less time consuming, less challenging and for sure the least fun. So it should IMO not in anyway be the focus before you have a dog that hunts really good on real birds.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by DonF » Thu May 07, 2015 9:35 pm

Opinions go both ways depending on who you talk to. I use pigeons early on. For me there is no better bird. Quail will recall but most people don't have a recall pen out. So, what's a quail cost? $6? Most don't fly well unless you have them in a big flight pen. If you use them a lot, good johnny house will work, where you going to put it? You shoot a quail it's gonna cost you the price of the quail any way you look at it; pup catch's and kills a few, still cost for the bird and often with only one time use. if your serious, pigeons are free other than feed, My ferals did very well on scratch for close to 30 yrs. Scratch is about $13 a bag, pigeon feed $18. Instead of investing in a big flight pen or even a johnny house, get a set of remote traps. I suggest a min of two of them. Put your pigeons in them and then you make them do what a wild bird would do. The point is over and the bird goes home, probably beat you there! You can train up through a completely finished dog on just pigeons. But some day you'll want to turn the dog over to wild birds. Simple enough, go out and run the dog on wild birds, heck of a lot cheaper than pen raised birds and the wild birds won't give you dog near the chance to mess up as a pen raised bird.

Ran into a guy I know coming back from working his dog on chukars. He told me where they were, he'd left six in the field at $9 each, to spendy for me. I used six homer's that day, 45mi from home. I got done and those birds were waiting for me to use again. Sometimes using pigeons I do lose one. I believe a hawk gets them then. Now a big plus for pigeons, won't be long and your gonna have to start shooting some to keep from over populating! Those birds are also free and when they are ready to fly, the only place they've ever called home is right where they were hatched, your loft, no settling required! Anything a wild bird can do you can simulate with remote traps. You find birds every time out right where you expect them. Want to practice on running birds? Pull flight feathers and you have a running bird. But there are those that say wild birds are all to train on. Some of them do train on wild birds, many other's say the same thing and train on pen raised birds. I started about 4 yrs ago with my homer's. I've shot a number, hawks got quite a few, I so;d some and have given a number of people birds to start their own loft's. I still have 40+ birds out there right now! In my feral loft are birds that have been hatched right here for over 25 yrs. I've carried as many as 80 bird at times before selling any. With those birds I've also given a good number of birds to start their own loft and gave another good number to friends for kill birds. I've had those bird home from 50+ miles on many many occasions. The only birds I ever paid for were pen raised game birds. That over 30 yrs and have never had to buy the first training bird! I got my start on ho,er's from a local rancher that race's them, He gave me the three pair and one pair is still out there. There is no way your at any kind of disadvantage using pigeons.
Last edited by DonF on Fri May 08, 2015 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ezzy333 » Fri May 08, 2015 6:48 am

Agreed
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Sun May 10, 2015 1:38 pm

I prefer strong flying Quail. I don't hunt Pigeons so I don't train with them....Seems like the lazy way to me.

Also, I shoot most birds during training so the cost is about the same no matter what species when you account for housing and feed. Add on top that Pigeons are one of the most nasty birds on Earth and I wont raise them..

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ezzy333 » Sun May 10, 2015 3:13 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:I prefer strong flying Quail. I don't hunt Pigeons so I don't train with them....Seems like the lazy way to me.

Also, I shoot most birds during training so the cost is about the same no matter what species when you account for housing and feed. Add on top that Pigeons are one of the most nasty birds on Earth and I wont raise them..
I don't know why what you hunt has to do with what you train with or why using one type of bird is lazier than using another though I do think you should use what you like. And believe it or not all birds eat, all birds poop, so there really is no difference in raising or housing them. Pigeons being nasty originates from two areas. One being the heavy populations of birds the cities where they make a mess on the sidewalks and the other on the farms where they were a problem in the hay mows when they were not tight enough to keep birds out. The problem is not unique to birds but they are the ones small enough that they are hard to control in the environment. I hate cows, ducks, or geese in the house yard so most people provide special yards or places for them.

Not sure there is a nicer bird than our racing homers.
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Sun May 10, 2015 6:21 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:I prefer strong flying Quail. I don't hunt Pigeons so I don't train with them....Seems like the lazy way to me.

Also, I shoot most birds during training so the cost is about the same no matter what species when you account for housing and feed. Add on top that Pigeons are one of the most nasty birds on Earth and I wont raise them..
I don't know why what you hunt has to do with what you train with or why using one type of bird is lazier than using another though I do think you should use what you like. And believe it or not all birds eat, all birds poop, so there really is no difference in raising or housing them. Pigeons being nasty originates from two areas. One being the heavy populations of birds the cities where they make a mess on the sidewalks and the other on the farms where they were a problem in the hay mows when they were not tight enough to keep birds out. The problem is not unique to birds but they are the ones small enough that they are hard to control in the environment. I hate cows, ducks, or geese in the house yard so most people provide special yards or places for them.

Not sure there is a nicer bird than our racing homers.
I am glad that you like them, I don't. To each their own. I train with birds that I will hunt, not some Rat with wings....Sorry.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ezzy333 » Sun May 10, 2015 8:15 pm

Seems strange those 'Rats with Wings" were responsible for saving thousands of lives during the past wars, have been awarded more medals than any other animal by our military, are being bred by people all over the world, are considered to be the symbol of peace, are kept by the royalty in Europe, are the national bird and racing them is the national sport of Belgium, are used to this day to help locate people lost at sea, and have a million dollar museum in Oklahoma City that has many visitors from this country as well as from all over the world. They are often referred to as the "Thoroughbreds of the Sky". Not too shabby for a bird that lends itself to the people who care for them much like our dogs.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Sun May 10, 2015 11:13 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Seems strange those 'Rats with Wings" were responsible for saving thousands of lives during the past wars, have been awarded more medals than any other animal by our military, are being bred by people all over the world, are considered to be the symbol of peace, are kept by the royalty in Europe, are the national bird and racing them is the national sport of Belgium, are used to this day to help locate people lost at sea, and have a million dollar museum in Oklahoma City that has many visitors from this country as well as from all over the world. They are often referred to as the "Thoroughbreds of the Sky". Not too shabby for a bird that lends itself to the people who care for them much like our dogs.
What War were you in where Pigeons were used?,,,,,,, Never heard of a pigeon getting an official Medal. In Fact, it cant happen.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by luvthemud » Mon May 11, 2015 4:25 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Seems strange those 'Rats with Wings" were responsible for saving thousands of lives during the past wars, have been awarded more medals than any other animal by our military, are being bred by people all over the world, are considered to be the symbol of peace, are kept by the royalty in Europe, are the national bird and racing them is the national sport of Belgium, are used to this day to help locate people lost at sea, and have a million dollar museum in Oklahoma City that has many visitors from this country as well as from all over the world. They are often referred to as the "Thoroughbreds of the Sky". Not too shabby for a bird that lends itself to the people who care for them much like our dogs.
What War were you in where Pigeons were used?,,,,,,, Never heard of a pigeon getting an official Medal. In Fact, it cant happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickin_Medal

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Post by getzapped » Mon May 11, 2015 7:07 am

I have been using whatever i can get my hands on. If i catch a pigeon or two i use em, if i can get quail i n use em. I trapped a coupled doves on accident amd n just planted them because i had em. The doves didnt work so good. Birds for training are really scarce by me.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 11, 2015 7:24 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Seems strange those 'Rats with Wings" were responsible for saving thousands of lives during the past wars, have been awarded more medals than any other animal by our military, are being bred by people all over the world, are considered to be the symbol of peace, are kept by the royalty in Europe, are the national bird and racing them is the national sport of Belgium, are used to this day to help locate people lost at sea, and have a million dollar museum in Oklahoma City that has many visitors from this country as well as from all over the world. They are often referred to as the "Thoroughbreds of the Sky". Not too shabby for a bird that lends itself to the people who care for them much like our dogs.
What War were you in where Pigeons were used?,,,,,,, Never heard of a pigeon getting an official Medal. In Fact, it cant happen.
"In Fact, it cant happen." Wish you hadn't said that, now I am questioning the other "facts" you have stated. Surprised you aren't aware of the fact that the US Army had mobile lofts and a breeding program as well. People donated the first birds they had but then they raised many of their own. The Germans even targeted pigeons lofts and did away with them in the territories they over-ran. I can't swear to it but I think our Army discontinued their pigeon program a few years ago but they were an important part of the military for many years dating back at least to the very early 1900's. Very few patrols during WW II left base without their pigeon carrier full of birds and they saved many lives by getting messages back when everything else failed.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by MJB64 » Mon May 11, 2015 8:30 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Seems strange those 'Rats with Wings" were responsible for saving thousands of lives during the past wars, have been awarded more medals than any other animal by our military, are being bred by people all over the world, are considered to be the symbol of peace, are kept by the royalty in Europe, are the national bird and racing them is the national sport of Belgium, are used to this day to help locate people lost at sea, and have a million dollar museum in Oklahoma City that has many visitors from this country as well as from all over the world. They are often referred to as the "Thoroughbreds of the Sky". Not too shabby for a bird that lends itself to the people who care for them much like our dogs.
What War were you in where Pigeons were used?,,,,,,, Never heard of a pigeon getting an official Medal. In Fact, it cant happen.
"In Fact, it cant happen." Wish you hadn't said that, now I am questioning the other "facts" you have stated. Surprised you aren't aware of the fact that the US Army had mobile lofts and a breeding program as well. People donated the first birds they had but then they raised many of their own. The Germans even targeted pigeons lofts and did away with them in the territories they over-ran. I can't swear to it but I think our Army discontinued their pigeon program a few years ago but they were an important part of the military for many years dating back at least to the very early 1900's. Very few patrols during WW II left base without their pigeon carrier full of birds and they saved many lives by getting messages back when everything else failed.
Here is some info on a WWI pigeon.
http://amhistory.si.edu/militaryhistory ... .asp?ID=10

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ruffbritt4 » Mon May 11, 2015 10:12 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Seems strange those 'Rats with Wings" were responsible for saving thousands of lives during the past wars, have been awarded more medals than any other animal by our military, are being bred by people all over the world, are considered to be the symbol of peace, are kept by the royalty in Europe, are the national bird and racing them is the national sport of Belgium, are used to this day to help locate people lost at sea, and have a million dollar museum in Oklahoma City that has many visitors from this country as well as from all over the world. They are often referred to as the "Thoroughbreds of the Sky". Not too shabby for a bird that lends itself to the people who care for them much like our dogs.
What War were you in where Pigeons were used?,,,,,,, Never heard of a pigeon getting an official Medal. In Fact, it cant happen.
Pigeons were used in World War I and World War II as a way of communication.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon May 11, 2015 10:28 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Seems strange those 'Rats with Wings" were responsible for saving thousands of lives during the past wars, have been awarded more medals than any other animal by our military, are being bred by people all over the world, are considered to be the symbol of peace, are kept by the royalty in Europe, are the national bird and racing them is the national sport of Belgium, are used to this day to help locate people lost at sea, and have a million dollar museum in Oklahoma City that has many visitors from this country as well as from all over the world. They are often referred to as the "Thoroughbreds of the Sky". Not too shabby for a bird that lends itself to the people who care for them much like our dogs.
What War were you in where Pigeons were used?,,,,,,, Never heard of a pigeon getting an official Medal. In Fact, it cant happen.
"In Fact, it cant happen." Wish you hadn't said that, now I am questioning the other "facts" you have stated. Surprised you aren't aware of the fact that the US Army had mobile lofts and a breeding program as well. People donated the first birds they had but then they raised many of their own. The Germans even targeted pigeons lofts and did away with them in the territories they over-ran. I can't swear to it but I think our Army discontinued their pigeon program a few years ago but they were an important part of the military for many years dating back at least to the very early 1900's. Very few patrols during WW II left base without their pigeon carrier full of birds and they saved many lives by getting messages back when everything else failed.

Go ahead and nominate a Pigeon for a Medal and lets see what you get. I don't care about what happened decades ago, I live in todays world.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 11, 2015 12:49 pm

I was in the Korean War, the one no one remembers or cares about, but we still had pigeons and have till recently when I think they discontinued them here. Read where London has started some kind of communication program again though. We need to do something in our bigger cities. Brazo, I understand living in the present as that is where we all live but many of us also lived in the past where we learned a lot of our knowledge and morals and way of life. Sadly, many of those standards have become more than present day people seem to be able to handle and our government is more than happy to tell you those standards are outdated and if you will just vote for us we will give you what you need with no effort on your part. But it is my experience that all of the modern world ideas have not bettered what common sense told us to do in the past in many cases. Very hard to replace or maybe a better term, displace, what experience has taught.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon May 11, 2015 12:55 pm

EZZY, thanks for your service. I haven't forgotten Korea and never will.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 11, 2015 1:01 pm

Thanks but you don't need to. I did what any one would or should do when you are blessed to live in a place where people gave their lives to create, it is just a duty that we all should accept if we are to keep and pass on the freedom we often take for granted.
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon May 11, 2015 1:32 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Thanks but you don't need to. I did what any one would or should do when you are blessed to live in a place where people gave their lives to create, it is just a duty that we all should accept if we are to keep and pass on the freedom we often take for granted.
Spoken like a true Hero. Luckily, I got the chance to serve also (Gulf War)and much of that was with a German Shepherd who saved many lives but getting a Medal on him was very difficult. My statement wasn't personal but simply that you wont get a medal on a Pigeon today.

Pigeons are listed as pests in most places and have no protection but are simply "convenient" for training but since I stated that I shoot most birds, I don't need them to come back.

We don't need to get personal about it.... I prefer game birds.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Fun dog » Tue May 12, 2015 11:14 am

I think we all prefer game birds, but game birds are not always readily available to everyone. Where I live it's a 2 hour hike up a mountain to get into game birds, if they feel like showing up that day, and to buy birds is $20. per bird. Pigeons can teach your dog a lot and save a few bucks.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Tue May 12, 2015 12:07 pm

Fun dog wrote:I think we all prefer game birds, but game birds are not always readily available to everyone. Where I live it's a 2 hour hike up a mountain to get into game birds, if they feel like showing up that day, and to buy birds is $20. per bird. Pigeons can teach your dog a lot and save a few bucks.
I pay $5 per Quail, $9 for Chukar and $10 per Pheasant. Pigeons would cost me more when you count your time....Besides, none of my dogs will even point a Pigeon but that must be my fault since I put them on the same level as "dickey birds". If I had to pay $20 per bird, I would change my thinking but even in Southern California I never paid that much.

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SCT
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by SCT » Tue May 12, 2015 12:51 pm

I've got one that won't point pigeons;-OOO Of course this is his first one in the field! Doesn't help when his first encounter with pigeons was him sneaking past me and pouncing on one of my homers in the loft while 30 of them were in a feeding frenzy....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hprM8rOR-Vs

Jokes aside, I've never had a pointer pup that wouldn't point pigeons after a couple tries. However, I have had them get stale on them and will only use them a few times until they're old enough to find and chase wild birds. Then when they are older and holding I will use a launcher occasionally!!! The only game birds (quail, chukar) that are good for puppies are well conditioned jonny house birds. The throw down birds you buy in the summer and fall teach the pups some bad habits, because they won't flush like a wild bird....way too easy to catch. Just my opinion and experience!!

Steve

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ezzy333
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ezzy333 » Tue May 12, 2015 2:02 pm

There is no difference in a pigeon, quail, pheasant, chukar, rail, or woodcock. They will hunt and point whatever you want to hunt even including rabbit, pigs, bear, or deer. If you are having trouble using pigeons it is because you have taught the pup it is just a training tool rather than something you are hunting. Dogs will hunt anything till you teach them not too.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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SCT
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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by SCT » Tue May 12, 2015 2:38 pm

Kinda like saying a hot dog is the same as a pigeon or quail or whatever! If you looked at my video you'll see a dog/pup "hunting" the pigeon! I agree with you that it is human error that causes problems with different birds, but would you say wild birds are the same as all those tame birds you listed?? The human error comes when the wrong birds are used for certain situations! Truth is, if whatever bird you use imitates a wild bird by flushing wild and flying away you are good to go!!! If not..... Then good luck!! Another truth, wild birds will teach better than any set up because even the trainer/handler doesn't know when the bird will flush, or where it is, or if it's even there is one in front of the dog for sure! Big difference in wild bird species too, as far as hunting goes. Pups should learn about those differences. If you disagree then go drop your dog in sage grouse country for the first time and see what happens!

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by ezzy333 » Tue May 12, 2015 3:40 pm

Naturally I am sure we all realize dogs or humans get a lot better with knowledge and practice. When a bird or specie is different in any way the dog will get better with practice. I don't necessarily agree with your statement a wild bird will teach better than a planted bird as it is all based on what you are trying to teach. But as a trainer you should be able to figure out what works best and go with it till you start another dog and then you will need to start over also.

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by oldbeek » Mon May 18, 2015 9:35 pm

I used so many pigeons that my dog decided they are just training aids and started blinking them. I started raising bobs. She started moving in on poor flying bobs at NSTRA trials. I actually used immature bobs to teach here to hold as they walked out of the cover. Now as they are getting older, they fly so far and run through the cover during planting, she has to really hunt to find them. As for the pigeons, I launch them when she gets close to the traps. She has learned to stop and watch them fly off.

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by DonF » Tue May 19, 2015 8:41 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:I prefer strong flying Quail. I don't hunt Pigeons so I don't train with them....Seems like the lazy way to me.

Also, I shoot most birds during training so the cost is about the same no matter what species when you account for housing and feed. Add on top that Pigeons are one of the most nasty birds on Earth and I wont raise them..
I don't know why what you hunt has to do with what you train with or why using one type of bird is lazier than using another though I do think you should use what you like. And believe it or not all birds eat, all birds poop, so there really is no difference in raising or housing them. Pigeons being nasty originates from two areas. One being the heavy populations of birds the cities where they make a mess on the sidewalks and the other on the farms where they were a problem in the hay mows when they were not tight enough to keep birds out. The problem is not unique to birds but they are the ones small enough that they are hard to control in the environment. I hate cows, ducks, or geese in the house yard so most people provide special yards or places for them.

Not sure there is a nicer bird than our racing homers.
I am glad that you like them, I don't. To each their own. I train with birds that I will hunt, not some Rat with wings....Sorry.
Did you get mugged by a pigeon? You want to train with quail, train with quail. Lot's of us train with pigeons. If pigeons are better or quail better just depends on who you talk to. Depending on how far you take your dog, the end product should turn out the same. I haven't had to pay for or go catch a bird in 30+ yrs now. How much does a quail cost where you are? here they run about $6 ea. That is gonna add up after a while, every one can't afford that. Something about quail and pigeons in training for wild birds is with both sooner or latter your gonna have to turn the dog over to wild birds. You can simulate a wild bird with pigeons you can't with quail unless you have a great system with johnny house's and fly them on a reg schedule.

The thing that bother's me with your post's is you don't seem to have ever trained with pigeons yet you condemn them and call them dirty. New's flash, all birds are dirty. I clean the loft's no less than every other day, they stay pretty clean! They don't smell either. If you don't mind, can we each give our own opinion without all this BS?
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: Pigeon or quail

Post by Kellym » Tue May 19, 2015 9:54 am

I don't know why what you hunt has to do with what you train with or why using one type of bird is lazier than using another though I do think you should use what you like. And believe it or not all birds eat, all birds poop, so there really is no difference in raising or housing them. Pigeons being nasty originates from two areas. One being the heavy populations of birds the cities where they make a mess on the sidewalks and the other on the farms where they were a problem in the hay mows when they were not tight enough to keep birds out. The problem is not unique to birds but they are the ones small enough that they are hard to control in the environment. I hate cows, ducks, or geese in the house yard so most people provide special yards or places for them.

Not sure there is a nicer bird than our racing homers.[/quote][/quote]




another advantage with homers is you can train the homers to return to the loft from very long distances. I don't have a loft anymore, thanks to it and everything else getting wiped out by an F5 tornado. But when I was more active in training I could train in different locations and always get my pigeons back. Another great use for a pigeon is with a new pup you can interlock the pigeons wings so they cant flap and scare a pup and let a pup play with it. It great for developing that prey drive in a young pup.

I have had and used both pigeons and quail. one is just as dirty as the other. Many people raise pigeons just for the fun of flying them and racing them is bigger than most realize or know. Some of those flying rats as you call them are sold for more money than many champion bird dogs. And some people care for them as much as people care for their dogs. Calling them flying rats will not set well with some. Its your opinion and I doubt you meant to to insult anyone. Its just an FYI.

Use what works for you. Pigeons fly better, and can be fun too. But I always finish a dog on quail. There are many training methods out there. I use the Smith method used By Ronnie and Rick Smith. Its was I have learned from Ronnie Smith it works for me. They use pigeons to start and finish with quail.

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