Should I quit using pigeons?

[randomnut]

Just got Perfection Kennels Perfect Start/Perfect Finish set last week. I noticed on the video's that they go through a great many pigeons. I've got two remote launchers set up, and also have a good sized pigeon coop. I was able to buy eight pigeons from a local guy, and caught twelve more in my traps.

After watching the perfect start videos, I decided to work with my dog this evening. I took 7 pigeons. While all of these pigeons seemed like strong flyers in the coop, they proved me wrong after launching them. All but two either fell back to earth after launching, or flew a short distance into trees or on the ground.

After watching this debacle unfold, I just let the last bird go. I let the dog loose to run after watching all the birds finally leave.
Shortly thereafter, two of the pigeons came back, and my dog, now loose, gave chase. The bird flew across a Creek about 50 yards wide, and the dog swam the creek and dispatched the bird which had landed on the bank.

Finding pigeons here has been almost impossible, and while catching them is not impossible, but not easy since all the places I can trap have plenty of grain laying around.

There's a WMA here locally that has plenty of wild quail. My dog has been around the wild birds before, and they wasted no time vacating the area after he tried creeping. Unfortunately, I can't train there from April 1 to September 1.

I guess I'm just curious if all this messing around trying to find pigeons, and ones that will fly, in enough quantity to train, could be forgotten and just get my dog on wild birds ASAP.

Opinions appreciated. Thanks

[KwikIrish]

Have you trained your birds to trap? Have you loft flown? Could they have been injured prior to use?
Simple questions, but important ones.

[randomnut]

Have you trained your birds to trap? Have you loft flown? Could they have been injured prior to use?
Simple questions, but important ones.

Honestly Kelli, I've never really heard of training them to trap, and not sure what you mean by loft flown. I only had one pigeon I was concerned about, being blind in one eye, and I left it in the coop. All others have appeared quite healthy. 3 of the birds have returned to the coop.

[kstater]

I have pigeons in a coop for a couple weeks at a time before letting them out and they fly well every time unless they are young birds. I have heard other guys say their pigeons dont fly as good if not allowed to fly for a few days. Pigeons do let you control situations you are trying to train and you can't get that with wild birds. Some work with each would seem to be the best case if you can get your birds flying better.

[KwikIrish]

Pm coming your way

[oldbeek]

I bought some pigeons that they called rock doves. They were pure white. Launch them and the just landed on the ground. Have used blue bars or check ferral pigeons ever since.

[Fun dog]

I let my birds fly a bit before using them with the dog. Pigeons are usually pretty good fliers if given a chance to spread their wings. If they are homing let them out to fly for a few days and then try again. You might want to try one in a launcher before bringing the dog into the picture again. Sounds like your dog has plenty of prey drive.

[randomnut]

That's what I'll try Fun Dog. I'm gonna start opening their pen every day to fly, and I'll definitely try them in the launcher first. The dog has a tremendous amount of drive, and anytime he's out loose, he's hunting.

I'm sure either way he'll get it figured out, but I would like for him to be ready to hunt come November.

Thanks again for your help folks.

[Gordon Guy]

My experience is that young pigeons that haven't been used much or are new to the game, (have not been used in Traps before) don't seem to fly very well and will sometimes land just feet away from the launch site. Now I use the older more experienced birds and leave the younger birds for "distraction" birds that I release out of a carrying pouch until they start to get the idea of flying back to the coop or at least leaving the area.

Once you know that your dog likes birds and or has caught a few to get the idea (If you subscribe to that training practice), it's good to have your dog under control (on the end of a checkcord) just in case things like what you described happen. One or two birds won't cause a problem, just like one or two birds don't make a bird dog.

Consider it training of the trainer.

Distraction birds = Birds I release while my dog is pointing another bird in a remote launch.

[DonF]

I've never heard of either feral pigeon's or homer's that wouldn't fly. I do have homer's that will walk around on the ground when the foot trap is kicked over but readily fly if provoked. Never seen a feral do that though. I don't recall flying young birds, probably did but I have always free flown a lot. my homer's don't free fly as much but i do have a very large flight pen out the back of their loft. I use that pen to teach young birds to trap. Simply get a bunch outside and close one re-entry bob. Do that a few days then drop another but not two right next to each other. maybe a weeks time and they are trapping and no danger of being picked off by predator. Something I should say about losing pigeon's, your gonna lose them now and then, expect it. i have pretty good results flying my birds from 50 to 100 mi but still lose one now and then. Pretty sure a hawk got them some where. if your training ferals you trapped, some simply won't come back, don't worry about it. If they don't come back when you free fly them, they won't come back off a dog later on either, just write them off and go on. Birds that don't come back are generally wild caught birds or they are birds raised in another loft and allowed to fly before you got them. The birds that don't come back don't fret over, concentrate on the one's that do. Don't kill your good bird's because it's what you have. Given a bit of time every bird you have will be good returning home and then you need to shoot some to keep from being crowded out.

I have given away a lot of pigeon's to people wanting to start their own loft. Biggest mistake most people make is getting into a hurry to fly them, settle them in first. Lately the birds I have been giving away have been un-flown young birds. The bridge of their beak's is still a bit pink but the do eat and drink on their own and fly in the loft. even those birds need a bit of settling, just not a whole lot. Feed and water then and when the bridge over their nose turns white, let them start free flying. Free fly a couple weeks then start taking them away from their loft and fly them.

Huge mistake many people make is assuming because they are inexpensive, they make good kill birds. Kill'em and replace them for from $2 up each, lot cheaper than game birds. But hold off killing until your getting to many in the loft and you will never want for birds again! I have not had to buy or catch pigeons in over 30 yrs now. The birds I have were all hatched and raised right here except three homer's. Two of them original birds and one volunteer.

[ezzy333]

You can count on a young never flown birds flying 50 to 100 miles id they get spooked. I see birds that don't know how to slow down to land but never saw one that couldn't or wouldn't fly. Oh and in a different thread maybe it was mentioned that white birds are Rock Doves. That they are, but so is every common pigeon. That is their official specie name. Color has nothing to do with their ability. There are less white birds raced but that is a result of people not wanting them because it seems the hawks zero in on them when hungry.

There is a big market though for white homers for all the people in the release business for funerals and weddings.

Ezzy

[CDN_Cocker]

If you want your birds to return you need to train them. they need to be flown from their loft and figure out how to get back in. Then you start taking them distances, small at first and then farther. Look up racing pigeon sites, lots of great info out there. Pigeon training is almost as fun as dog training... a real close second.

[gundogguy]

. Pigeon training is almost as fun as dog training... a real close second.

Now that is funny. I have often training class attendees "do not make pets out of your pigeons".LOL

[Fun dog]

And whatever you do, don't name them.

[ezzy333]

And whatever you do, don't name them.

I name the racing birds after they have won a race and some of the breeders that have produced good youngsters. Home Alone is mated to My Choice, Powder Blue is mated to Bess, and Devoe's Choice is mated to Graveyard Griz.

[DonF]

When we came over here, 1989, we brought all our pigeons from the valley. Had one hen in the bunch that I'd caught in a barn near Scappose, Ore and used as a kill bird, caught some just for that and she was one. First time out, day after I caught her, for what ever reason I let her go without shooting. Didn't matter as I could go to the same barn that night and recover her. Well she didn't go back to the barn, I found her in the loft with my fly away birds! Brought her over here with us but never used her with dog's again, mom, as we called her, became a pet. She lived out her life here and I've no idea how old she was when we lost her, close to 15 I'm sure of. I have Red Grizzle's in my homer loft right now that I don't use and only fly them when no hawks are around, beautiful bird's. Also have some really pretty marked ferals, white in just the right spots. Don't use them either. probably another in the homer loft I won't use. Still very young and adult's just about had it killed. I got a cage for it and fed and watered it in that cage and it's now back with the rest of the birds. I'm afraid it will be bald the rest of it's life though. Time I finally put it in the cage there were no feather's left on it's head, just a bloody scalp. And one eye was swollen shut, it's open again now. . Well ezzy I got to tell you, I do have some favorite's in both my loft's but i didn't name them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yet! lol

[polmaise]

Pigeon training is almost as fun as dog training... a real close second.

It's also more serious depending on how far you want to take it
This one ,flew from Nantes (France) to Stirling (Scotland) in a race with some 3,000 others to come home first ! ..I was only a young lad of 12 years old and No Father to guide , but my Ma' was proud as punch I only had a loft made of old Tobacco boxes reclaimed from the factory that Mum worked , but the bird didn't mind ..it was home .
Quit using Pigeons ?...Quit using them wrongly would be my advice

[ezzy333]

Pigeon training is almost as fun as dog training... a real close second.

It's also more serious depending on how far you want to take it
This one ,flew from Nantes (France) to Stirling (Scotland) in a race with some 3,000 others to come home first ! ..I was only a young lad of 12 years old and No Father to guide , but my Ma' was proud as punch I only had a loft made of old Tobacco boxes reclaimed from the factory that Mum worked , but the bird didn't mind ..it was home .
Quit using Pigeons ?...Quit using them wrongly would be my advice

Amen Robert. We may use pigeons as a tool but every living animal deserves to be treated humanely. I can't make myself use them as a play toy for a puppy. I let a pup find them or chase them around the yard for a bit but they do not get to maul them and carry them around till they die.

Ezzy

[SCT]

Quit using them wrongly would be my advice

This! You have to make sure they will fly before using them!

[ezzy333]

Quit using them wrongly would be my advice

This! You have to make sure they will fly before using them!

Never had one that wouldn't fly but then I knew they could when we caught them. Lots of quail that wouldn't till I started making them fly up to get there food and water

[DonF]

Great advice Palmaise! I've never seen a pigeon given half a chance that wouldn't fly. Keep in mind I'm talking about ferals and homer's.

[CDN_Cocker]

Way before I was ever into dogs I raced homers and raised birmingham roller pigeons. I truly enjoy having pigeons. My current living situation means I cannot keep them, so I buy a dozen at a time and use them up within a few days. Pigeons are absolutely amazing animals, and waiting on a couple birds that have been released 500-1000 km away to get back and trap/clock in can be quite exhilarating. When I am able to have a loft again, I most certainly will have birds for dog training... but I will also keep some true athletes and probably get back in the racing game and only the culls will be shot over the dog.

[jhorak]

Seems like a good time to post this video.

http://youtu.be/HlJUcJnoNFk