increasing prey drive in puppy

jackp · Post by **jackp** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:40 am

Recently took my puppy out for his first hunt and shot a couple of bunnies, brought my dog over to it whilst it was still alive after being shot but the dog didn't seem interested? it went up and sniffed the bunny but kept walking straight past after a quick sniff. At this point i had him on a lead so i could keep him near the bunny but didn't want to pick it up or have anything to do with it. I don't think he was scared by it, just didn't want a bar of the rabbit.

Any advice? he's a 5m lab (not the ideal breed i know)

GWPtyler · Post by **GWPtyler** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:16 am

Hmm...well, it might just be an exposure thing. Keep trying until something clicks.

Otherwise, if the dog doesn't got it, it doesn't got it. I've seen too many people spend too much time trying to "train" prey drive into dogs that couldn't care less. If it feels like you're pounding a nail into a 2x4 with your fist, it's not worth the hassle.

Good luck!

Kellym · Post by **Kellym** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:44 pm

Use a live pigeon and lock its wings together there is probably a video on line somewhere to show how. I found this explanation just make sure you have it right before you turn your pup loose>

Locking wings: One of the coolest attributes of a pigeon are its wings. They're the only bird (that I know of anyway; or at least ones I'm interested in for dogs) that you can "lock" their wings. Because of how a pigeons wings are structured, you fold one over the other twice and render them incapable of flying or flapping. They can waddle along on the ground, but they're not going any place in the air. This is handy for keeping a bird in one spot/area when working on pointing, coming into scent or introducing puppies to birds for the first time.

here are a couple of pics of two of my dogs when they were puppies playing with a pigeon with its wings locked

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:59 pm

you can lock a chukar's wings!

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:18 pm

DonF wrote:you can lock a chukar's wings!

As far as I know you can do it with any bird. I just never found much need to do it with smaller birds like pigeons. I understand the theory of it but I haven't seen a pup that doesn't end up getting more excited when the bird gets excited and creates a lot of movement. The pup may back off for a minute but in the end they handle it quite well. Like so many things though desire or prey drive as it is called today is bred in and at some point it will come out with out trying to increase it which I doubt is really possible.

Ezzy

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:46 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
DonF wrote:you can lock a chukar's wings!
As far as I know you can do it with any bird. I just never found much need to do it with smaller birds like pigeons. I understand the theory of it but I haven't seen a pup that doesn't end up getting more excited when the bird gets excited and creates a lot of movement. The pup may back off for a minute but in the end they handle it quite well. Like so many things though desire or prey drive as it is called today is bred in and at some point it will come out with out trying to increase it which I doubt is really possible.

Ezzy

I do think that prey drive, birdiness, desire, hunt, ...whatever one may wish to call, is a trait that is "born in". There are a number of these types of traits that are bred for and bred into bird dogs. You can awaken it, you can direct it, you can quash it, but if it ain't there...it ain't gonna be there.

Sometimes, with different breeds and different strains within breeds, it does indeed take some time for the "light to come on", so do not get discouraged. I mess with FDSB trial bred pointers and they probably have the fastest developing drive to find birds of any of the pointing breeds, but even they can take some exposure to light the fire occasionally.

Talk to the breeder. They should have a good idea as far as how quickly and how intensely their breeding develops birdiness, as a rule and might be able to give you suggestions on how best to awaken it.

I am a big fan of tossing pigeons for youngsters and later, popping traps when the dog is well away, so that it gets to watch the bird fly away. That usually gets the pup's juices flowing.

RayG

RayG

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:59 pm

In about 50 years of gundogs I have never had a working bred pup that didn't have prey drive, although the amount of it did vary from pup to pup. The widest and fastest running GSP I ever owned was a dog pup I bred myself. At six months old he would not hunt at all, he just ambled about beside me. My other dogs once flushed a rabbit that ran right in between his front legs and he hardly bothered to even look at it.

I was just about to give him away as a damp squib to a pet home when at 7-8 months old the prey drive thingy finally clicked into place inside his head. He never looked back and became a very good dog. I think we sometimes expect too much too soon from puppies.

I never use clip winged or locked wing pigeons which is just as well because doing that is illegal here yet simply being allowed to hunt for wild game plus maybe getting a few fresh shot birds to retrieve from about 7 months onwards always seems to be enough to arouse the prey drive. I admit to being a bit of a tree hugger where pigeons are concerned . Pigeons were a boyhood pet and hobby of mine and I kinda like them and could not toss them live for a puppy to "learn on." Not doing that with pigeons or with any other bird doesn't seem to make my dogs have less prey drive.

Bill T.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:00 pm

Pretty much my method also.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:39 pm

I feel the same way also, not going to treat a pigeon or any other living thing like that.

The dog either has it or it doesn't and pups often take a while to mature and become aggressive hunters, so the OP shouldn't worry IMO

getzapped · Post by **getzapped** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:00 pm

Op. Are you trying to teach the lab to run rabbits? Or just trying to get it excited about critters? Ive ran beagles the last 12 years and if the dog actually sees the rabbit and then can chase it that usually turns em on pretty quick. I dont know about labs though. My gsp pup just discovered rabbits. She just points them in the yard.

This pic is everytime we walk out the door.

20150612_174414.jpg

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:11 pm

1st time out and 5mos. old, don't even give it a second thought. Let the pup have fun and do what he wants.

Charlie

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:05 pm

[quote="RayGubernat

I do think that prey drive, birdiness, desire, hunt, ...whatever one may wish to call, is a trait that is "born in". There are a number of these types of traits that are bred for and bred into bird dogs. You can awaken it, you can direct it, you can quash it, but if it ain't there...it ain't gonna be there.

Sometimes, with different breeds and different strains within breeds, it does indeed take some time for the "light to come on", so do not get discouraged. I mess with FDSB trial bred pointers and they probably have the fastest developing drive to find birds of any of the pointing breeds, but even they can take some exposure to light the fire occasionally.

Talk to the breeder. They should have a good idea as far as how quickly and how intensely their breeding develops birdiness, as a rule and might be able to give you suggestions on how best to awaken it.

I am a big fan of tossing pigeons for youngsters and later, popping traps when the dog is well away, so that it gets to watch the bird fly away. That usually gets the pup's juices flowing.

RayG

..........................

I must have been lucky as I've never had to awaken a prey drive in a well bred pup.

I respect your opinion always though Ray, so it must be a not uncommon problem.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:24 pm

I have never felt the need to "wake up the prey drive". Well bred dogs are borne with it, as are most any other dog....They are predators. Having said that, I don't believe it is ever too early to introduce game if done in a proper way. Although, I am not going to stress if it takes some to show prey drive a little later than some others. Hope this makes sense.

Charlie

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:11 pm

"Prey drive" is the drive to chase small prey. A dead/dying rabbit is not a chase. You're confusing the 2. The problem that you have right now is that the dog is not interested in cold/warm game - but that is something that is built through play and retrieve training. What you need to do if you want him to take an interest in rabbits is walk him in an area where you are likely to make contacts and hope he bumps into one. Most dogs, regardless of hunting ability/breeding will want to sight chase a rabbit. Start there. Letting him get a sniff on the ones you shoot is good, maybe try to get him retrieving them. Pick the rabbit up and tease him with it and toss it a couple yards, encouraging him to pick it up and bring it back. Lots of praise and excitement. If he starts connecting the smell it will help him bump into one on your walks.

NEhomer · Post by **NEhomer** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:40 pm

Why on earth would one wish for a birddog to point or chase rabbits? I'll trash break my setter from chasing fur.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:47 pm

NEhomer wrote:Why on earth would one wish for a birddog to point or chase rabbits? I'll trash break my setter from chasing fur.

Some people hunt everything. Hence "versatile" breeds. My dog hunts both fur and feather. Why on earth would one wish to limit their dog's potential?

NEhomer · Post by **NEhomer** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:29 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:
NEhomer wrote:Why on earth would one wish for a birddog to point or chase rabbits? I'll trash break my setter from chasing fur.
Some people hunt everything. Hence "versatile" breeds. My dog hunts both fur and feather. Why on earth would one wish to limit their dog's potential?

Because rabbits are nasty tasting little flea bags. My dog goes on point, I excitedly approach looking for the best angle for the shot when all of a sudden, a "bleep" key chain bursts from the bushes. No thanks, I had a britt that pointed rabbits and it was annoying. If I wanted fur, I'd have bought a beagle.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:18 am

NEhomer wrote: Because rabbits are nasty tasting little flea bags.

Some obviously are missing out on this underrated little gem

http://urgegastropub.com/2011/06/22/the-underrated-gem/

NEhomer · Post by **NEhomer** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:52 am

Yup, been missin' out on that little gem...

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:37 am

polmaise wrote:
NEhomer wrote: Because rabbits are nasty tasting little flea bags.
Some obviously are missing out on this underrated little gem

http://urgegastropub.com/2011/06/22/the-underrated-gem/

If wild rabbit isn't the best wild meat it surely ranks in the top two or three. Nice that everyone can hunt and shoot what they want and should be able to with out criticism.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:43 am

ezzy333 wrote:
polmaise wrote:
NEhomer wrote: Because rabbits are nasty tasting little flea bags.
Some obviously are missing out on this underrated little gem

http://urgegastropub.com/2011/06/22/the-underrated-gem/
If wild rabbit isn't the best wild meat it surely ranks in the top two or three. Nice that everyone can hunt and shoot what they want and should be able to with out criticism.

Cotton tails rank pretty high, Snowshoes and Jack Rabbits not so much..................Cj

NEhomer · Post by **NEhomer** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:29 am

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