Gun Dog Forum

I have a 4 month old Weimaraner that is bird shy. She is good with dead birds as I've drug them around the yard and made her use her nose to find them and she has no problem picking them up. I tried taking her to my trainer and working her there and she shows no interest - even when I used my Brittany Spaniel to try and get her excited about the birds. I tried the live bird in my yard where she feels most comfortable at but as soon as she smelled the live bird she shied away - somehow she knew it was not a dead bird. I got her to come back in and when the bird flushed, she yipped and ran the other way. All I have been using is quail so no larger birds. I need some ideas on how to fix her because I really want her to hunt. Thanks!

Assuming you haven't shot around the pup yet or used an e collar around birds? Assuming pup has had no bad bird experience of which you are aware?

Is pup generally timid or bold otherwise?

Four months old and somehow you "made" her use her "use her nose" to find some dead birds that had been dragged around the yard?
That right there smells like too much pressure has probably been put on a young pup of a breed that can be slow to develop anyway. Back off the birdwork and let her grow up. Work on socializing and house manners and let her grow some confidence. If you keep pushing her you'll end up with big problems.

Later on -in a few months- you might try again. But I would be very careful about "making" her do anything around birds. That includes verbal encouragement and leading her via cc to them. Maybe set some out and leave her alone to find them and to do what she will. Sometimes it helps to stake a dog out where it can watch other dogs being worked on birds, but again, you have to careful to be quiet, calm, and basically happy time the trainee so your pup sees birds = fun. I would use a happy eager dog and some exercises that will not require correction.

It's harder to back off and be patient than to push. Lots of us have been there. Good luck to you.

I'm with shags.... Sounds like you're trying to get there too fast. Enjoy your pup, and if he gets around birds again, shut your yap and let him figure it out. If his breeding is any good at all, he'll figure it out.

Sharon wrote:Assuming you haven't shot around the pup yet or used an e collar around birds? Assuming pup has had no bad bird experience of which you are aware?

Is pup generally timid or bold otherwise?

I have not shot around the pup nor have I used an e collar on her and pup is more bold then timid and she has had no bad bird experience that I am aware of

shags wrote:Four months old and somehow you "made" her use her "use her nose" to find some dead birds that had been dragged around the yard?
That right there smells like too much pressure has probably been put on a young pup of a breed that can be slow to develop anyway. Back off the birdwork and let her grow up. Work on socializing and house manners and let her grow some confidence. If you keep pushing her you'll end up with big problems.

Later on -in a few months- you might try again. But I would be very careful about "making" her do anything around birds. That includes verbal encouragement and leading her via cc to them. Maybe set some out and leave her alone to find them and to do what she will. Sometimes it helps to stake a dog out where it can watch other dogs being worked on birds, but again, you have to careful to be quiet, calm, and basically happy time the trainee so your pup sees birds = fun. I would use a happy eager dog and some exercises that will not require correction.

It's harder to back off and be patient than to push. Lots of us have been there. Good luck to you.

I have backed off the birds and just resumed her normal training just working on the basic commands and made was the wrong use of the word the dead quail I was using to leave sent in the yard she found and tracked on her on accord I do have a very good Brittany spaniel that I tried using to get her excited about birds but had no effect any exercise you could recommend I use when I do decide to try live birds again? Thanks for the advice

Forget about birds for at least a few months. Run the dog frequently through varied types of cover if possible. Pay attention and some point the dog should start to pay attention to or may chase song birds or doves, etc... Then go back to quail, but do it slowly and let the dog decide the pace.

rinker wrote:Forget about birds for at least a few months. Run the dog frequently through varied types of cover if possible. Pay attention and some point the dog should start to pay attention to or may chase song birds or doves, etc... Then go back to quail, but do it slowly and let the dog decide the pace.

Thanks for the advice

Another thing to think about is where did you get the pup from were both parents hunters? If BOTH parents where not strong hunters then the pup may not have any true natural desire for birds wired in the genetic being of the dog.

I would back off and find what does get the pup excited. Once you find that even if it is treats then you çsn slowly relate what excites the dog into being a reward being around birds it is a slow process but it çan be done to some level

Just curious what the bird exposure consisted of that the dog showed no interest in? What kind of bird? After the dog shied away what did you do with the bird?

If you want a dog to hunt with you might want to get another pup.

Some individuals and some breeds just take longer. Sometimes the drive doesn't kick into gear as early as it does for some other breeds or individuals.

It's important that care is taken with these types to introduce birds in a way that the right associations are made. A wing clipped pigeon, for example, doesn't make sense to every pup.

You may want to talk with a trainer who works with a lot of Weims/Vizslas/Spinones/etc. and has success with them.

This is not a good thing however it is not insurmountable. Keep birds away from pup for now. More importantly, only have pup experience birds through other VERY high drive dogs that bounce, bark, yip, and flip with excitement when they see birds, perhaps have these dogs on a stake-out with yours in the middle. A structured procedure(s) can address this however it is hard to determine from this end of this medium.
I would be remiss if I did not say that I personally would not be pleased starting out this way with my next brag bird dog. As knine and others have mentioned, genetics will assuredly play a big part in what you end up with. If the sire and dam aren't from solid working stock, you are facing an up hill battle, for sure. If so, cut your losses sooner rather than later. You don't want this to be a 15+ year mistake with the assigned/related expenses for a dog that just doesn't have "it".
If it does have the make-up to become a decent bird dog, see a pro near you. He will be your best bet as this can erode even further if not handled properly. There is a very good reason why your pup acts this way - even if you are not aware of what it is. A well-seasoned pro will decipher this phenomenon and develop a recuperative plan....again, if the dog has the fabric.

The bottom line, IMO, is that he is just too young for that type of exposure or any kind of pressure training, especially considering the breed. Looking for too much too soon from a pup is one of the worst things you can do.

Charlie

Don't be discouraged or give up on this pup. Many of us have seen numerous pups who were not interested in their first birds but developed into very stylish and driven adult gundogs. This is more common in some breeds/pedigrees than others. There are some things you can do to keep your pup going in the right direction. Finding someone who is successful and experienced with your pup's pedigree and breed will eliminate some of the guesswork as you go forward.

One of the finest bird dogs I have ever known had absolutely no interest in the first live quail presented to him. Today he is an incredibly talented, stylish Pointer with miles of leg and drive. He was simply slow to mature.

Still curious what approach the original poster and his trainer took but since he asked I'll throw out what I've found is the best case scenario with dogs that are a little timid around their first birds.

Find a large field with low to medium length grass (4-6 inches) with some bushes spread out. Take a good flying quail and pull enough flight feathers on one wing so that it can fly 20-40 feet but not to much farther. Plant the bird lightly and let the dog find and hopefully bump the bird, if it doesn't flush then flush it yourself while the dog is watching. Either way try to encourage the dog to go where it landed and repeat. If the dog catches or picks up the bird make noises like its the happiest day of your life. If he's still timid just be all happy talk. Do this for a max of 10 minutes every week or two. You'll know when it's time to move to real training.

Griffonpoint wrote:Don't be discouraged or give up on this pup. Many of us have seen numerous pups who were not interested in their first birds but developed into very stylish and driven adult gundogs. This is more common in some breeds/pedigrees than others. There are some things you can do to keep your pup going in the right direction. Finding someone who is successful and experienced with your pup's pedigree and breed will eliminate some of the guesswork as you go forward.

One of the finest bird dogs I have ever known had absolutely no interest in the first live quail presented to him. Today he is an incredibly talented, stylish Pointer with miles of leg and drive. He was simply slow to mature.

I agree but I would put a whole lot less emphases on breed and pedigree as it happens everyday with pups of all kinds.

rdwfelton wrote:I have a 4 month old Weimaraner that is bird shy.

I would say you have a 16 week old dog that doesn't know the value of a bird
Some children would put their hand in a hawthorn bush for a $50 note and some not. But by the time they all know the value of it all of them figure a way to get it. True, some have a greater desire or need for it , but all know the value.
I wouldn't be in too much of a quest to battle this.

Look into North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association, AKA NAVHDA, http://www.navhda.org/
It looks like they have a lot of chapters in PA http://www.navhda.us/chaptmap.aspx
They help you train your dog and have a lot of resources. Even if the chapter isn't real close to you there may be members that are that would be happy to get with you & train.

My pups see free flying pigeons from 8 weeks old. By 10 weeks I put part of a sock over a pigeons wings and use electrical tape to secure their wings completely. They can hardly even walk. I hide them in a weed and let the pup sniff them out. They will usually drag the pigeon out to get a better look. Usually pick them up. I am really gentle on any yard work. They don't even know they are learning, just think they are out having fun. By 12 weeks I have them out with a bag of pigeons and use the perfect start method releasing a pigeon well away from the dogs face. My pup's have seen birds flying around the yard already so it never scares them. By 4 months they are bird crazy.

What would be wrong with just taking pup to a big field where he/she can smell, find, and chase wild little "bleep" birds??? They are fun, fun, fun for puppies to figure out. And you don't have to ever say a word while pup is learning the fun world out there. Just my .02 cents!

Still curious about the genetics/pedigree?