Finishing Stand/Whoa command

[RaiderZach]

So i read a few books, and decided to go with "training with mo" for my guide. It's working out great but I am having trouble with getting my dog to stay on all fours and still when I walk all the way around him.

He does awesome if I command him to stand even in mid-run. He also will allow me to walk in a half circle from behind him to in front of him and back coming from the left side.. However, if I try to completely walk around him (continuing the clockwise circle), he always attempts to reposition himself to see me.

No matter what I try, he continues to do this. I have tried using the check cord to correct the problem and i've tried layering it with low stim which he is interpreting for the recall command.

Any tips would be welcomed, do I need to use a whoa post?

[mnaj_springer]

Isn't this pup 5 months old? I think you're doing pretty good for that age!

[clink83]

Are you working him on birds? If he's not steady to wing yet I wouldn't try to walk around him or anything. Just stop him between birds and walk in front of him and act like you're flushing birds. Once he's steady to wing, introduce "whoa" as a cue to stand, then you can test him more.
Take him upwind of birds he can't see, stop him, then flush them for him. That will get them stopping really well

Edit: I would be careful about teaching a Visla that young to stand and be hitting it with the collar. That dog is probably too young to start training.

[RaiderZach]

Are you working him on birds? If he's not steady to wing yet I wouldn't try to walk around him or anything. Just stop him between birds and walk in front of him and act like you're flushing birds. Once he's steady to wing, introduce "whoa" as a cue to stand, then you can test him more.
Take him upwind of birds he can't see, stop him, then flush them for him. That will get them stopping really well

Edit: I would be careful about teaching a Visla that young to stand and be hitting it with the collar. That dog is probably too young to start training.

I haven't hit him with more than 1, his trainer conditioned him to the collar when he spent a week there a few weeks back.

[aksportsman]

how old is this pup?

[RaiderZach]

how old is this pup?

5 months

[clink83]

I would put the ecollar away, and reread "training with mo" or some of the articles on http://www.steadywithstyle.com. The West method isn't one that really can be mixed with other plans. You don't want to be walking in front of dogs and hitting them with the collar at this stage of training. At 5 months your dog is almost certainly too young to work on birds, and you only refine the stand command while working birds.

This is a good start:
http://steadywithstyle.com/on-birds-and-around-birds/

[aksportsman]

I would put the ecollar away, and reread "training with mo" or some of the articles on http://www.steadywithstyle.com. The West method isn't one that really can be mixed with other plans. You don't want to be walking in front of dogs and hitting them with the collar at this stage of training. At 5 months your dog is almost certainly too young to work on birds, and you only refine the stand command while working birds.

This is a good start:
http://steadywithstyle.com/on-birds-and-around-birds/

+1

at that age I would stay pretty light on the collar.

[RayGubernat]

Right now the ONLY pup I would say WHOA to is the one whose hand is on the checkcord.

You are going waaaaaay too fast there fella. You run the risk of souring the dog if you keep pushing it. it really is still a puppy, wioth a puppy's attention span and a pyuppy's sensitivity.

I know it seems like the dog is progressing very well and very fast...AND IT IS! It sounds like an awesome dog. But please understand that it is still in its formative stages, mentallyas well as physically. You need to keep it fun and fresh and exciting for a puppy. And yes, once again I will tell you ...you have a puppy.

To give you a frame of reference:

I have been messing with bird dogs for over fifty years and learned(and continue to learn) from some of the very best trainers out there and it takes me a year to get where you say you are right now, with dogs that are selectively bred to develop quickly.

I train pointers, and work with them from the time they come to me. Pointers, especially trial bred ones are selectively bred to develop VERY fast compared to other breeds and most of these dogs can handle drills and pressure that would cause many dogs to fold their tents and quit. If they don't, they wash out.

I can and have developed pointers that were standing their birds at nine and ten months of age. Not every one, but most of them. By one year those same dogs were pretty reliable and by 16 months they were pretty bomb proof...most of the time. I have had more than one pro trainer tell me to my face that they were impressed by the level of finish on a couple of my dogs at those ages. But as an amateur with only one or two dogs to work at any one time, I can spend a whole lot more time with the dog than most pros can.

You and your dog are waaaaay ahead of the curve. Please believe me on this.

Patience. Have fun with your youngster. Keep working toward your goals, but always remember to keep it fun for both of you. If the dog seems not to be getting a piece of the training, there are two main reasons for it. One is that you may not be presenting the training in a way the dog can grasp and the other is that the dog may be to immature to accept that particular piece of the training.

in either case you need to go easy, re-think what you are doing, how you are doing it and not just press on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with backing off a piece of training and going and doing something else. There is actually a whole lot right with backing off, and going and having some fun time, especially with a puppy.

Patience. This is the hardest thing for the one dog owner. Have fun with your dog. Take the time to savor, to enjoy what you are looking at and what your youngster is giving you...today.

Sounds like you got a good 'un, so take it slow and you will get there.

This ain't a race to see how fast you can get it done. It is about developing a hunting partner who will hunt with joy and enthusiasm, with you, for the next dozen years or so.

RayG

[RaiderZach]

This is why I am so glad I found this place. Thanks for the replies guys, I am going to step back and realize how quickly he is progressing and take it easy.

We have a lot of fun together learning (both of us), and he really is an incredible dog.