agressive behavior

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RyanGSP82
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agressive behavior

Post by RyanGSP82 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:14 am

I currently have 3 gsps. 2 males and 1 female. The older male is 8 yrs old and the other is a 8 month old puppy. The puppy has decided without warning that he will not tolerate the older male to be with in sight of him. He will attack the first chance he gets at him. When I say attack he does not give any warning, no growling no bare teeth just crazy eyes and hair raised and he is off after the older male. He latches on and will not release the other dog until you pull him off or spray him with water. I do believe he would actually not stop until the other dog is dead. The puppy has been a great dog so far loving and easy going but for some reason they can't be anywhere near each other. The older male has been neutered. Has anyone ever dealt with such a issue? I hate to have to kennel the puppy all the time sense we have plenty of room for all three In the house.

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GWPtyler
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Re: agressive behavior

Post by GWPtyler » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:32 am

If you physically can't keep those dogs apart and have tried everything, I'd go to the breeder...

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by ACooper » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:34 pm

RyanGSP82 wrote:I currently have 3 gsps. 2 males and 1 female. The older male is 8 yrs old and the other is a 8 month old puppy. The puppy has decided without warning that he will not tolerate the older male to be with in sight of him. He will attack the first chance he gets at him. When I say attack he does not give any warning, no growling no bare teeth just crazy eyes and hair raised and he is off after the older male. He latches on and will not release the other dog until you pull him off or spray him with water. I do believe he would actually not stop until the other dog is dead. The puppy has been a great dog so far loving and easy going but for some reason they can't be anywhere near each other. The older male has been neutered. Has anyone ever dealt with such a issue? I hate to have to kennel the puppy all the time sense we have plenty of room for all three In the house.

What kind of correction are you giving the young dog?

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by polmaise » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:39 pm

RyanGSP82 wrote:I currently have 3 gsps. 2 males and 1 female. The older male is 8 yrs old and the other is a 8 month old puppy. The puppy has decided without warning that he will not tolerate the older male to be with in sight of him. He will attack the first chance he gets at him. When I say attack he does not give any warning, no growling no bare teeth just crazy eyes and hair raised and he is off after the older male. He latches on and will not release the other dog until you pull him off or spray him with water. I do believe he would actually not stop until the other dog is dead. The puppy has been a great dog so far loving and easy going but for some reason they can't be anywhere near each other. The older male has been neutered. Has anyone ever dealt with such a issue? I hate to have to kennel the puppy all the time sense we have plenty of room for all three In the house.
Video ? please?... :roll:
I'm sure your ''basic training and discipline'' is sound and 'sit means sit' ..and 'No means No' , and 'Heel means Heel' .

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by DonF » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:03 pm

Does that only happen indoor's or outside too?
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RyanGSP82
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Re: agressive behavior

Post by RyanGSP82 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:35 pm

Puppy sits, heels, whoas, comes, listens really good. Its just an issue with this one dog. The puppy and said dog had there spats when he was 4 and 5 months old. Mainly just the older dog teaching him he doesn't want to play all the time and to stay out of his food. Now Its as if the puppy has waited until he was old and big enough to get back at him. The puppy watches him intently and when giving the opportunity attacks, no warning no nothing. I have no video and I keep them separated now sense the puppy has staples in his face. its just a shame that these two will never be able to hunt together. As for correction I have giving is as you could imaging, after unlatching the puppy is quite stern and somewhat ugly. I have had him around other male dogs and he has had no problems. But I must say that I do and have seen that same look in his eyes when other dogs have growled at him or try to take his bird or toy away. I can't say I trust him anymore to be with other dog or animals. I am going to intensify his training and reinforce all commands. Any other ideas or anyone else ever have this problem?

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by Sharon » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:55 pm

May I ask what the older male does when this happens? and what is the third dog doing when this is going on?

Is the older male healthy?

I have a 9 year old and she would put that pup in his place in a minute.

I'd say the 8month old is trying to take first place in the pecking order and this MAY not be a bad thing if it can resolved quickly and without harm .
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My young dog will abuse my 13 year old if allowed. I dealt with this bullying FIRMLY and the young dog will not bully now. If you want to know what "firmly" means you can PM me. :)
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edit: How long has that behaviour been going on?
Last edited by Sharon on Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RyanGSP82
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Re: agressive behavior

Post by RyanGSP82 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:04 pm

Older male fights back and growls to keep him away but it just makes it worse. The female will just watch, neither want any of her wrath. ugh Im really just hoping its a one dog pecking order thing but I fear he might just not play well with other males.

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by polmaise » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:32 pm

Couple of posts on what the dog(s) do ?.......
What do you do ?..
Really need a video ..I'll bow out :wink:

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by shags » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Have you checked out http://leerburg.com. Click on "articles" at the top of the page, find the ones on aggression.

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by bobman » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:07 pm

I had one that did this and the only warning was that "wild far away eyes look"

after a couple attacks I had enough and beat the living crap out her the next time she started it, it took two rounds and now if she gets the "look" I just say her name and she decides its a bad idea, shes still the alpha among the dogs but recognizes me as the boss of the "pack"


that ended it although i still have to keep an eye on her but she understands I wont tolerate fighting period.

this is the only dog I've hit in a long long time but there is a time when talking is over


your dog doesnt respect you
Last edited by bobman on Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bobman
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Re: agressive behavior

Post by bobman » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:09 pm

one more thing you will never be able to leave them alone together IMO

sooner or later the old dog will end up dead if you do
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Re: agressive behavior

Post by Dakotazeb » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:38 am

Sounds to me like your 8 month old pup has a major issue. How can you ever be sure he will not turn on another dog, or even worse a child or an adult. Personally, if I had that dog it would be down the road. Zero tolerance for that type.
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Re: agressive behavior

Post by ACooper » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:11 am

RyanGSP82 wrote:Puppy sits, heels, whoas, comes, listens really good. Its just an issue with this one dog. The puppy and said dog had there spats when he was 4 and 5 months old. Mainly just the older dog teaching him he doesn't want to play all the time and to stay out of his food. Now Its as if the puppy has waited until he was old and big enough to get back at him. The puppy watches him intently and when giving the opportunity attacks, no warning no nothing. I have no video and I keep them separated now sense the puppy has staples in his face. its just a shame that these two will never be able to hunt together. As for correction I have giving is as you could imaging, after unlatching the puppy is quite stern and somewhat ugly. I have had him around other male dogs and he has had no problems. But I must say that I do and have seen that same look in his eyes when other dogs have growled at him or try to take his bird or toy away. I can't say I trust him anymore to be with other dog or animals. I am going to intensify his training and reinforce all commands. Any other ideas or anyone else ever have this problem?

If you are waiting until after it has happened to correct the dog you are too late. I know you said the dog gives no warning, but I can assure you he is giving a warning you just have not been able to identify what it is yet. Some dogs are very subtle, but there is still some advanced warning, you need to be able to stop and address the situation before it starts.

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:35 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:Sounds to me like your 8 month old pup has a major issue. How can you ever be sure he will not turn on another dog, or even worse a child or an adult. Personally, if I had that dog it would be down the road. Zero tolerance for that type.
+1 There is only one time a dog of mine can be truly aggressive, the first time. If it hasn't learned after that, it's gone. I don't tolerate it.
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Re: agressive behavior

Post by shags » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:31 pm

OP, you said the dog gets the crazy eyes and his hair goes up right before the attack. So there's your warning. That's when you have to correct him, the instant those cues appear. You could leave a short piece of lead on his collar, and give him a good jerk. Some dogs will require just a jerk on that lead, others might need to be laid down on their sides until you see a sign of submission, others might need a darn good shake and a few whacks.

I've been where you are...not once, but twice, with two different pairs of dogs. It's very difficult to live with a fighter as you know. Do not think that they will sort it out themselves - they won't, and you will end up with a dead dog and the other needing sewing up. Don't think that you can ever trust them alone together. Keep them separated as one in a crate while the other is loose around the house. Baby gates etc won't hold them.

If your experience is like mine, the problem started when the younger one was a little pup. He learned to bully and got away with it. So now you have a problem that will be hard to fix, but you've learned how to handle (or not handle) new pups/old dogs in the future. Do not allow bullying, even if the older dog is kind and patient with the pup - especially if that's how it goes. Come down hard on the aggressor. IME experience the key is to not allow a dog to think *your* world is his oyster - it's not. It *all* belongs to you and he's only just allowed to share it on *your* terms. That includes living space, other dogs, food, toys, his crate, and everything he did not personally write a check for. That attitude got me past those pairs of fighters and allows me to have had as many as 6 dogs in our house with no fighting among any of them.

Good luck to you, you have a long road in front of you. I hope everything works out for you.

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by polmaise » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:51 pm

mnaj_springer wrote: There is only one time a dog of mine can be truly aggressive, the first time. If it hasn't learned after that, it's gone. I don't tolerate it.
Gone where?

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:53 pm

polmaise wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote: There is only one time a dog of mine can be truly aggressive, the first time. If it hasn't learned after that, it's gone. I don't tolerate it.
Gone where?
Oh, you're reading my posts again... If the OP wants to know what I mean he can PM me.
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agressive behavior

Post by Grommet » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:00 am

I suggest you read "The Dog's Mind" by Dr. Bruce Fogle. It is a quick read and you can go straight to the chapters on aggression. It will help you identify the source of aggression. Some sources can be dealt with by training around it some not. He discusses the exact problem you seem to be having and how to deal with it. I think without being able to see it happen, as some forms are very similar, Internet advise is limited.

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by jimbo&rooster » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:31 pm

Dogs like this don't last long around here. If a couple good ol fashion whoopins don't settle things I won't bat an eye at culling an aggressive dog. I won't take the chance of my other dogs becoming injured, and I encounter too many other hunters in the field to worry about what my dog will do when it gets to theirs.

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by setterpoint » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:30 am

I would try walking both dogs together. have someone walk your old dog on leash while you walk the young dog keep them far enough apart so the young dog cant fight older dog this way you can control the younger dog. if the dog is thinking about healing instead of fighting maybe he will get used to the older dog. if this don't work I would look for a good trainer that's dealt with this in the past. and if this don't work I would get rid of the dog. you cant have the dog fight with other dogs it will run into in the field

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by bobman » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:16 pm

note the OP said he is fine around other dogs its just that one older dog that he goes after
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Re: agressive behavior

Post by jimbo&rooster » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:56 pm

bobman wrote:note the OP said he is fine around other dogs its just that one older dog that he goes after

He also said at another point the dog gets that far away look in his eye at other dogs....

Jim
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.

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Re: agressive behavior

Post by RyanGSP82 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:44 pm

thanks everyone for all advise, tips and info.

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