The T.A.N.

[Trekmoor]

Sorry, I do not know what the letters stand for but I am wondering if you have these tests in America .....maybe under another name ?

A TAN , so I am told, is a natural ability test for the versatile breeds . I'd entered my Brittany for one being held tomorrow but she came into season so I am going along just to spectate. The test is held against a "standard" ....the dogs are not in competition with each other.

The test sounds so easy that I'd probably restrict it to pups of less than 18 months or maybe even 12 months old. As far as I am aware the dogs taking part can be any age. "All" the dogs have to do is hunt fairly well or at least show some inclination to hunt and at least indicate but preferably point on caged birds , usually pigeons or quail. They also should not show undue fear of a gunshot .....probably a starting pistol will be used.

That is it. No vocal or signalled or whistled commands should be needed but you can use them if you want to. There is no steadiness on point requirement and no retrieving is done.

It almost sounds not worth doing to me yet it seems to be a "big thing" among show folk who want to have some sort of work credentials for their dogs. I suppose it is better than nothing at all so I will take a look at this event and try not to be too critical.
One of the people taking part is an old lady , even older than I am , she is one of the show people and she has asked me to run her young bitch for her. That bitch has never seen game or me before in her life so the result of me running her should be interesting ....if I do it. I know for sure the bitch has had no training at all other than that required for a show ring so I could be on a loser !

This TAN is for brittanies only , I think, it should be an interesting day but do you have similar events in America ?

Bill T.

[Neil]

http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/WebPages ... Dogs/About

[crackerd]

Bill, NAVHDA Natural Ability Test, even though it's something of a misnomer since it's very much "trained for" - and yes, Brittanies are considered a NAVHDA breed.

MG

[polmaise]

Natural ability in any dog would be to 'Stravaig' .

[Trekmoor]

I went along to yesterdays TAN not very sure what to expect . As a way of getting mainly show minded folk to have a go at gundog work , the TAN is doing a good job. As a way of evaluating the Hunt-Point-Retrieve breeds it needs to be a good bit stiffer I.M.O.
I am pleased now that my own Brittany came into season preventing me running her in it , the TAN was far too "false" to suit her .....I think she might have failed it .

The field the TAN took place in was a horse paddock . The ground was very easy for a dog to run on being longish grass and some beds of the reedy grass I call spike grass. It was about 250 yards long by 150 yards wide and the dogs were taken from the starting position to hunt on a cheek wind before turning into the wind to hunt up the length of the field. Since the fencing was meant for horses , dogs could very easily leave that field to hunt further out than the 70-80 yards per side which was all that was required.

It was not good land for spectating , once the dogs got into the grass it was only possible to see the people involved with the hunt so I cannot comment on much of the dogs hunts .....but only one dog left that field to hunt in the field off to the side just 70 -80 yards away. If my bitch had been running there would have been two dogs there for whom that field was not enough running space and I'd have had to handle her .

The caged game was quail , it is likely my bitch would not have pointed them as she never encounters them in her normal hunts. I think she would have "indicated" but maybe not pointed the quail. The birds were in non-release cages about 70 yards apart and there were two cages.

I did run the old lady's bitch for her.....the best way to get to know something like the TAN is to do it yourself. I didn't know the approximately 18 months old bitch at all and she didn't know me so I spent 30-40 minutes with her prior to running her simply persuading her that I was O.K. to come back to . She was an easy bitch to get on with and I had no problems with her but she had certainly had no hunting whatsoever prior to her "run." That became obvious as soon as I ran her.

I'd asked the lady how she usually let the bitch off just to play and just run around. She replied she told the bitch to ...." Go and find the birdies !" I know the man who judged , he is an old friend, so I was ready for his snigger of laughter when I cast the bitch off to hunt using those words ! :roll: Off went the bitch but she lacked "purpose." She had no idea at all of what hunting meant or that game might be found so she found horse's droppings instead.

Handling is not supposed to take place in the TAN but I "handled" her on away from her breakfast and at last she began to hunt ....after a fashion . My spaniels hunt wider than she does but at least she was "going" so I cheered her on . She opened out a bit and did a lovely point on the first, well hidden , caged quail . The point only lasted 2-3 seconds but it was there.....she had indicated the presence of game.

She then moved straight in on the cage and was still there when I reached her seconds later. The dogs are supposed to show that they can be hunted on after a "find" but this is one of the things where the "natural" work that is supposed to be seen and real life takes differing paths. I had to take her away from the cage on a lead and then hunt her on. She hunted on and was going quite well but I noticed the wind had taken a slight change in direction.

She flash pointed on the second cage and then moved straight in once more. I was again putting the lead on her when the judge said...." That's odd, the previous dogs indicated from over there ." I pointed out the wind's present direction and all was well.
Once more I took her on a lead 40 yards or so away from the cage to hunt her on and then await the shot being fired. This time she knew where she wanted to go so she broke back behind me to find the cage again.

I had to go back, collect her on the lead , then cast her off to hunt again , making sure using my voice and arm signals that she went in the direction required. The shot was fired and she didn't turn a hair or even look in that direction, she was now wanting to find more birds. That ended our run .....not that she did much running. From what I'd been able to see only one of the other dogs had ran convincingly so maybe her run was on about or just below a par with most of the others ?

The getting the dogs away from the caged game part of these tests is certainly not "natural." It would need training with most dogs ....I think the rules need to be changed in that regard. I wondered if the bitch had failed the test due to this or if her lack of "purpose" or perhaps her short ranging would cause a "fail" score.

It was up to the judge, luckily he was of the same opinion as me. She had shown that even with no training and no game experience whatsoever , she did have natural ability that could be improved upon. She passed and the old lady got her TAN certificate and was delighted.

I.M.O. that bitch is a very good prospect as a working gundog ......if given experience and trained. That will never happen , the bitch will be a pet and show dog with a "working certificate" for the rest of her days.

Bill T.

[crackerd]

So, Bill, the "T.A.N.", unlike the N.A.T., has no water work, retrieve (not required by NAVHDA but "well-liked" by the judges) or tracking?

Robt., are you throwing "stravaig" out there in the literal sense of the word, i.e., "wandering about aimlessly?"

MG

[polmaise]

Robt., are you throwing "stravaig" out there in the literal sense of the word, i.e., "wandering about aimlessly?"

MG

Depends how hungry they are

[crackerd]

Robt., are you throwing "stravaig" out there in the literal sense of the word, i.e., "wandering about aimlessly?"

Depends how hungry they are

Aye-aye, mate!

MG

[Trekmoor]

Mike, no British test for retrievers or spaniels has a definite requirement that dogs must retrieve from in or from over water. If water is present the dogs are likely to have to swim , if no water is present on the test ground then it doesn't matter.

The H.P.R. tests are different, those tests often do have a water test as is required in their trials too but the T.A.N. has no retrieves of any kind which I think is wrong as the last initial of the "HPR" stands for retrieve. It is felt that hunting and pointing is "natural" but that retrieving is a taught behaviour. I know that is not always exactly true but I am heavily outvoted if I suggest having even the most elementary retrieve added to the TAN.

As far as I am aware there is no tracking element in any kind of gundog test held here although the Large Munsterlander Club does have a graded tracking test included in some of it's own clubs tests. I took part in one of that clubs tests about 10 years ago with my own GSP pup of 5-6 months. He "passed" the hunting, the pointing, the land retrieve and the water retrieve part of the test but failed on the tracking. So he failed the whole thing.

I still feel a bit peeved about that , he'd been following the blood scent reasonably well until the wind swung round and he winded the deer hide from 30-40 yards away and cut the corner to go straight to it.

Bill T.

[Sharon]

I hear you. When I used to participate in pointing breed tests, the course had a tall, thick hedge between the 200 yard "search field" and the planted bird field. My dog always scented the birds pretty quickly and went through the hedge and went on point. Thus she failed the "search" part and had the whole test finished in 5 minutes. LOL It's just a game .