Next Step - HELP

[grecothrown]

I have a 10 month old setter that I have been training. I am coming into the hunting season and think that I need to see a professional trainer or get some advice. The puppy used to point birds and I was getting to the point where I could walk in front for the flush. Over the last 3 weeks she has stopped pointing and just rushes into the birds. I have been using a launcher and as soon as I know she is in the scent cone and running in I send the bird up. Her reaction is to continue running and chase the bird. I have sent up 5 birds so far this way and her behavior has not changed, if anything she may run faster towards the bird now when she is in the scent cone. NOW comes the deal breaker - last nights session was much the same: she ran in on the bird, I sent the bird out of the launcher, she chased the bird... the pigeon must of got hurt or dazed during the launch because after a short flight it came down to the ground and was caught by the dog. The good news is that this was the first retrieve on a bird and she brought it right back to me - the bad news is she caught a bird she did not point.

Now the question - keep doing what I have been doing and sending the bird up when she charges or seek professional help to see if there is something else that I should be looking for?

[Sharon]

Everyone trains differently. At 10 months I would continue with what you are doing. When the dog starts to hesitate= no more chasing.

"The good news is that this was the first retrieve on a bird and she brought it right back to me" .......be very happy.

- "the bad news is she caught a bird she did not point". .... not a big deal.

[shags]

Probably most of us has had a little marvel that made us think the pup was a genius, or that we were most excellent trainers, only to have the little "bleep" go rogue around that age. Dang, there went our swagger! Just back up a little, stay quiet, and regroup.

That is exactly why Al Gore invented the check cord

Put one on her collar, let her scent the bird, and give a little tug to get her to stop. But keep you mouth shut. Launch the bird, restrain with the check cord - keep your mouth shut here, too - let her watch the bird fly off. Rinse and repeat. She'll get it.

[mask]

shags has got it right. That is why god made check cords.

[grecothrown]

That is exactly why Al Gore invented the check cord

Put one on her collar, let her scent the bird, and give a little tug to get her to stop. But keep you mouth shut. Launch the bird, restrain with the check cord - keep your mouth shut here, too - let her watch the bird fly off. Rinse and repeat. She'll get it.

Al Gore was such a wise man - some would say wise beyond his EARS....

She has been running with the check cord but it is time to put it back in my hands when we get near the scent cone. - Thanks

[mnaj_springer]

My pup did this too... My solution was wild birds. They have no tolerance for crowding. I let her hunt, bump, and chase... The whole time I kept my mouth shut... No words, nothing. The birds were training her now, and I just watched. When she finally did point, my job was just to take a picture.

Now are launchers she points sooner and with more intensity. Granted, she's far from perfect, but I'm in no rush.

[Sharon]

My way too , although I use hard flying wild pigeons as wild birds are at a premium here.
Two distinct methods here and often posted. Check cord on right away or bump and learn. I find the two styles very interesting.

[gonehuntin']

I'm not big on letting bird's teach a young outlaw. I'd get her back in the yard ON A CC and work her on fly aways and clip wings there. If she isn't steady in the yard you can't expect her to be steady in the field. The more you can do in the yard, the less pressure you will have to exert in the field. The field is no place to steady a dog iMO.

[polmaise]

I'm with 'gonehuntin' ! ..depending on what you are teaching in the yard ?> ...and subsequently what you are teaching in the field ?
Leaving anything to ''Luck'' ..or the dependency of what unpredictable wild game will do to teach what the end of a process is expected before the dog has gone through that process is just .....well..''Winging it'' .
I do believe that game can teach a young dog more about game than a trainer! ..I don't believe a young dog can learn more about the game than the trainer ! ..Saying that ...An inexperienced trainer can't train a young dog diddly squat by allowing it to train it'self on game ?....I call that 'Self employed' ..So no matter the breed or function , I like to keep a 'team' function of ''Working together''.

[Jidano3]

as soon as I know she is in the scent cone and running

IMO, this is TOO late. With a launcher you will need to be "very in tune" with the dog picking up the scent. The absolute second the dog smells something the bird should have been launched. This should steady the dog, it will learn soon enough that it needs to rely on its nose. The dog is young and seems like you are making progress.

[bonasa]

Now is a good time to begin a proven training program based on building off of a dog's known acceptable behaviors to facilitate learning in a positive consistent manner.

[4dabirds]

Now is a good time to begin a proven training program based on building off of a dog's known acceptable behaviors to facilitate learning in a positive consistent manner.

Yesterday I started to to write a response to this post and I realized after about a hundred words I would have to continue for about a week to describe exactly this .A real training program . You need a real training program and you need to get some knowledge of the reasons dogs do what they do .

[RickB]

A common adage is that once the dog learns he cannot catch the bird, he'll stop chasing. But two things are happening with your dog. 1) he likes to chase and/or 2) he's learned that he can catch birds. some dogs chase to chase, because chasing is fun. Some dogs chase to catch.

I have no idea what is motivating your dog to chase...to catch or to chase. I need to ask this question, though: what is his reward for holding point? Were birds shot over him to reward a solid point? did proper behavior ever yield anything positive for him? He's gotten a reward for chasing, what is his motivation to not chase?


Here is what I would do. Not saying this is right or the only way, just what I would try. There needs to be rewards for proper behavior AND consequences for bad behavior. And it all starts back in the yard.

1) get a solid whoa. You'll want to put a shock collar on the flank to reinforce this.
1a) Ease into this, but get the whoa to a point where the dog is standing as birds are walking around in front of him. A lot of different ways to do this, probably the easiest way is simply distance. whoa the dog, walk 40 yards ahead and drop a wing locked bird. If he breaks, stimulate, pick up the bird and hide it. If he does it right, toss the bird, shoot a cap gun and either release the dog or bring the "shot" bird to the dog. Drill this and slowly close the distance and repeat. Consequences and rewards. Make chasing suck and "whoa" reap rewards.

2) Sometimes, people train a stop to flush. Stop to flush training teaches a dog that a bird in the air means stop. This is not wrong and can help. But it may be unnecessary.

3) Next is birds in launchers. Dog on a check cord. See what he does. If he points, great. Flush and shoot the bird. Or shoot a cap gun and toss a bird for him. If he breaks, launch the bird, stop the dog with the cord. Put him back where he broke, tell him whoa and give a light belly shock. Try another bird. If he breaks twice, teach stop to flush. If he gets it after bird two, then start drilling the behavior.