Retrieving drive is low

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Roe90
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Retrieving drive is low

Post by Roe90 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:15 pm

I have a 5.5 month old yellow lab female and I can't get her on bumpers, but when we go to the lake to train she will retrieve the heck out of bumpers and dummies from the water, but not land. She retrieves the heck out of feathers on land and brings them back to hand but just won't retrieve anything else, doesn't even care at all about retrieving bumpers. Sometimes she will retrieve balls but it's like her drive is just low and I have no idea how to fix it. Should I just stop the retrieving all together for now because I feel like when I throw a bumper and she does nothing it is teaching her bad habits. I have a feeling I introduced her too early and it hurt her teeth or something.

Guys I'm just so baffled and concerned. Her obedience training is going excellent but the retrieving part makes me very concerned. Without giving me any "she's too young" or "you're not ready for that" answers can someone please tell me if force fetch will fix this in the future. Or maybe she will just start liking it when she's older? Show her other dogs? All the books and methods tell you ways to make it happen but no fixes for when it doesn't.

Please help!!

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Neil » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:59 pm

Force fetch will fix it, but I doubt you will have a problem hunting her. We don't shoot many bumpers. Had a Boykin female that never retrieved anything but birds, was going to FF her, but never got around to it. 2,000 dead birds later, it didn't seem important. I was never able to train her to a high levels, she didn't learn doubles, tripples or blinds, except on the job.

Just don't worry about it for now. Later you can wrap some feathers on the dummies, or even use frozen pigeons. It will work out.

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:13 pm

Relax. I know it's hard to hear and a bit nerve-racking but Your puppy is just that... a puppy. Did you ever make that video?
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Roe90
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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Roe90 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:24 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Relax. I know it's hard to hear and a bit nerve-racking but Your puppy is just that... a puppy. Did you ever make that video?
I never got a good one, today I threw one and she didn't even go for it. Threw feathers and she went nuts. I'll make one tomorrow. I've really been switching my focus back to obedience and not letting this other stuff worry me. This is my first time so I'm just freaking out. I appreciate you all helping me.

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Roe90 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:25 pm

Neil wrote:Force fetch will fix it, but I doubt you will have a problem hunting her. We don't shoot many bumpers. Had a Boykin female that never retrieved anything but birds, was going to FF her, but never got around to it. 2,000 dead birds later, it didn't seem important. I was never able to train her to a high levels, she didn't learn doubles, tripples or blinds, except on the job.

Just don't worry about it for now. Later you can wrap some feathers on the dummies, or even use frozen pigeons. It will work out.

"We don't shoot many bumpers" is just what I needed to hear haha makes a whole lot of sense, heck if she just retrieves ducks and birds I'd be completely fine with that!

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Gordon Guy
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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Gordon Guy » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:34 am

Did she retrieve bumpers enthusiastically before? All dogs loose their puppy teeth, I can't remember the approximate age that it happens but I believe it's within the first year. And it appears that their desire to retrieve wanes during that period. Could it be that?
Tom

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Neil » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:50 am

I did not think about teething as contributing factor, but the age is about right.

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/teeth.html

Roe90
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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Roe90 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:45 am

Gordon Guy wrote:Did she retrieve bumpers enthusiastically before? All dogs loose their puppy teeth, I can't remember the approximate age that it happens but I believe it's within the first year. And it appears that their desire to retrieve wanes during that period. Could it be that?

Yes she did, she used to LOVE it, she would retrieve her little canvas bumper quite enthusiastically. I think I had her on a bumper too young and it hurt her teeth now she's nervous. I'm going to hang up the bumpers and just continue with feathers for a while, and some birds. Then re-introduce it later after I continue obedience. Also, she will water retrieve her canvas bumpers at the lake....just not dry land. I don't get it.

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:38 am

The only concern is if she's mishandling feathers now or if she starts mishandling them, you may be setting her up for failure later.

What kind of bumpers do you have/use? Style, brand, etc.
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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Swampbilly » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:57 pm

Roe90 wrote:I have a 5.5 month old yellow lab female and I can't get her on bumpers, but when we go to the lake to train she will retrieve the heck out of bumpers and dummies from the water, but not land. She retrieves the heck out of feathers on land and brings them back to hand but just won't retrieve anything else, doesn't even care at all about retrieving bumpers. Sometimes she will retrieve balls but it's like her drive is just low and I have no idea how to fix it. Should I just stop the retrieving all together for now because I feel like when I throw a bumper and she does nothing it is teaching her bad habits. I have a feeling I introduced her too early and it hurt her teeth or something.

Guys I'm just so baffled and concerned. Her obedience training is going excellent but the retrieving part makes me very concerned. Without giving me any "she's too young" or "you're not ready for that" answers can someone please tell me if force fetch will fix this in the future. Or maybe she will just start liking it when she's older? Show her other dogs? All the books and methods tell you ways to make it happen but no fixes for when it doesn't.

Please help!!
Just want to emphasize something-
Force Fetch will not, does not create desire in a dog to retrieve. It's about pressure, and how a dog percieves it, reacts to it the rest of it's life.
Don't know what you're doing in the training field, but would suggest keeping retrieving fun, no expectations for now, and don't overdo marks the pup does in fact pick up.
Lots of praise for success!
Secondly-
Your pup is 'dictating" where and when, it wants to retrieve-
Don't get sucked into the idea that you need to get her in H2o so she'll retrieve ,.. for if you get into that as the only place you work with her, and becomes the only place she'll pick anything up, sometimes you can back yourself in a corner and H2o can become the only place she'll retrieve.
Kinda' like the poor fella' who uses birds exclusively, (over use), for a while with a pup and then tosses a bumper one day out of the blue..- pup runs to it sniffs it, lets it lay there while looking back at you with the 'hey where's the beef!?" look on it's face.

Nothing in the world wrong with getting pup in water in a regular basis! You just don-t want to condition pup to consider the lake , (or water) to be the only place ot "wants" to retrieve!
Get things straight on land first.
Then progress to water.
Would suggest some clipped winged birds in the training field, and let 'er chase and get her to return one to you.
Builds up some prey drive.

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:16 pm

lt may be that the rascal has learned that if she doesn't retrieve bumpers, you'll throw feathers for her. Sometimes once they taste feathers they don't want to go back to canvas or plastic. Is the dog from good breeding? If so, I doubt you have anything to worry about. She's still a baby now, but once you force her, it'll cure all of your problems. I'd far, far, rather have a dog nuts over feathers than plastic. Feathers can cure a wealth of ills.
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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Neil » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:22 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:lt may be that the rascal has learned that if she doesn't retrieve bumpers, you'll throw feathers for her. Sometimes once they taste feathers they don't want to go back to canvas or plastic. Is the dog from good breeding? If so, I doubt you have anything to worry about. She's still a baby now, but once you force her, it'll cure all of your problems. I'd far, far, rather have a dog nuts over feathers than plastic. Feathers can cure a wealth of ills.
I wish I had said that.

And if you FF properly, it may not replace desire, but when you say fetch, they are going bring back something or break their necks trying. Sure looks like desire.

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Swampbilly » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:33 pm

Neil wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:lt may be that the rascal has learned that if she doesn't retrieve bumpers, you'll throw feathers for her. Sometimes once they taste feathers they don't want to go back to canvas or plastic. Is the dog from good breeding? If so, I doubt you have anything to worry about. She's still a baby now, but once you force her, it'll cure all of your problems. I'd far, far, rather have a dog nuts over feathers than plastic. Feathers can cure a wealth of ills.
I wish I had said that.

And if you FF properly, it may not replace desire, but when you say fetch, they are going bring back something or break their necks trying. Sure looks like desire.
8) It sure does..
There's a lot that can be said about how a dog "feels" about retrieving in general.
One can find out a lot about his dogs' inner "desires" on a nice balmy 4 deg morning, in a brisk 30 knot wind and 33deg water-
Properly FF'd or not.
:wink:

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Neil » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:48 am

That has not been my experience with FF'd dogs.

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Roe90 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:57 am

Swampbilly wrote:
Roe90 wrote:I have a 5.5 month old yellow lab female and I can't get her on bumpers, but when we go to the lake to train she will retrieve the heck out of bumpers and dummies from the water, but not land. She retrieves the heck out of feathers on land and brings them back to hand but just won't retrieve anything else, doesn't even care at all about retrieving bumpers. Sometimes she will retrieve balls but it's like her drive is just low and I have no idea how to fix it. Should I just stop the retrieving all together for now because I feel like when I throw a bumper and she does nothing it is teaching her bad habits. I have a feeling I introduced her too early and it hurt her teeth or something.

Guys I'm just so baffled and concerned. Her obedience training is going excellent but the retrieving part makes me very concerned. Without giving me any "she's too young" or "you're not ready for that" answers can someone please tell me if force fetch will fix this in the future. Or maybe she will just start liking it when she's older? Show her other dogs? All the books and methods tell you ways to make it happen but no fixes for when it doesn't.

Please help!!
Just want to emphasize something-
Force Fetch will not, does not create desire in a dog to retrieve. It's about pressure, and how a dog percieves it, reacts to it the rest of it's life.
Don't know what you're doing in the training field, but would suggest keeping retrieving fun, no expectations for now, and don't overdo marks the pup does in fact pick up.
Lots of praise for success!
Secondly-
Your pup is 'dictating" where and when, it wants to retrieve-
Don't get sucked into the idea that you need to get her in H2o so she'll retrieve ,.. for if you get into that as the only place you work with her, and becomes the only place she'll pick anything up, sometimes you can back yourself in a corner and H2o can become the only place she'll retrieve.
Kinda' like the poor fella' who uses birds exclusively, (over use), for a while with a pup and then tosses a bumper one day out of the blue..- pup runs to it sniffs it, lets it lay there while looking back at you with the 'hey where's the beef!?" look on it's face.

Nothing in the world wrong with getting pup in water in a regular basis! You just don-t want to condition pup to consider the lake , (or water) to be the only place ot "wants" to retrieve!
Get things straight on land first.
Then progress to water.
Would suggest some clipped winged birds in the training field, and let 'er chase and get her to return one to you.
Builds up some prey drive.

At the end of the day as long as she brings me back birds then I'm not too concerned with it. She may learn that it can be fun. Another key points is that she is spayed so there isn't any kind of offspring coming from her. She was bred well but my neither me nor my wife wanted to deal with heat plus we have a male who's not fixed who's just a house dog. So, if FF will get her to bring me birds then it works for me!

We did clipped wing pigeons last night and she LOVED IT, she returned one to me and she was proud as she could be. She chased it around for a while and I'd never seen her so happy. It was excellent and relieved a lot of my stresses for now.

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:35 am

Roe90 wrote:At the end of the day as long as she brings me back birds then I'm not too concerned with it. She may learn that it can be fun. Another key points is that she is spayed so there isn't any kind of offspring coming from her. She was bred well but my neither me nor my wife wanted to deal with heat plus we have a male who's not fixed who's just a house dog. So, if FF will get her to bring me birds then it works for me!

We did clipped wing pigeons last night and she LOVED IT, she returned one to me and she was proud as she could be. She chased it around for a while and I'd never seen her so happy. It was excellent and relieved a lot of my stresses for now.
I know what you're saying... You just want a reliable hunting dog... But your second paragraph is the reason you actually do want her to have desire and be a stylish retriever. Think of how proud you were in that moment. That's why you will want more than just getting your birds back.
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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by crackerd » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:39 am

gonehuntin' wrote:Is the dog from good breeding?
Most pertinent question in this thread - may make all the difference in the world as to how a retriever will or can be trained. So what's the breeding on this Lab?

MG

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by Swampbilly » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:02 am

Neil wrote:That has not been my experience with FF'd dogs.
Respectfully-
Not sure what kind of problen we have here, unless there's a misconception that perhaps you feel that the attributes of FF' were somehow downplayed on this end.
They weren't.
As to your post-
I understand.
Comes as no surprise.

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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by DonF » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:24 am

Sounds to me like you have a puppy that had something bad happen with those bumper's it won't retrieve. 5 1/2 months? That is a puppy! Puppy's don't quit for losing interest, they quit because something bad for them happened.
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Re: Retrieving drive is low

Post by polmaise » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:47 am

Roe90 wrote: Guys I'm just so baffled and concerned. Her obedience training is going excellent but the retrieving part makes me very concerned. Without giving me any "she's too young" or "you're not ready for that" answers can someone please tell me if force fetch will fix this in the future. Or maybe she will just start liking it when she's older? Show her other dogs? All the books and methods tell you ways to make it happen but no fixes for when it doesn't.

Please help!!
Oh Really ?..So if you wrapped raw bacon on the bumper the dog ignores it ? Aye right ! :roll:

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