Introducing dog to fields

JonnyUtah · Post by **JonnyUtah** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:09 pm

Hi, I am a new owner of a 12 week old Brittany Spaniel, and new to the forum... I am currently going through basic obedience training with our brittany.
This is our first bird dog and I've just read a couple books on training (How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves by Joan Bailey, and Family Friendly Dog Training by Patricia B McConnell)...

One recommendation is to introduce the dog to fields and let him explore while you walk along with him. We live next to a vast amount of open fields and every few mornings instead of our normal walk on the leash I'll take him for hikes. Once we are at the field, I will take him off leash and he would stay pretty close to me for the first few times. But now he is getting more brave and has started to chase birds and rabbits... I have been working on the basics of "sit" and "Come" and he seemed like he is doing great. Even in the field if i whistle and say "come" he will immediately come running, even if he has wondered a ways off. However, once we get close to the car or end of the trail he will bolt and refuses to come close to me... He knows the hike is over and no amount of treats or praise will entice him!

Questions:
Is he too young to be taken off leash and into fields? Am I setting myself and him up for failure if he goes after a bird or rabbit and I can't get him back?
Should he always be on a leash until he has the basic obedience down?

Thanks for any responses!
Jon

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:42 pm

The answer to you question is NO. You should take a pup of that age into a safe field and go for a walk with it running free and you not saying a word unless the pup is in danger. And that doesn't mean running and chasing or getting too far away from you. The pup needs to explore and learn what is in those fields and what to do with what it finds. And you can't teach that but you can give the pup the opportunity to discover the answers on it's own. That is your main job. When the pup gets too far away, and that means many yards such as 500 or so, I many times will hide behind some object so the pup has to find me. I think the main thing you will have to learn is that when you lose your pup that doesn't mean the pup has lost you. Relax and enjoy and give the pup the opportunity to explore, discover, and react to what is in this big wonderful world we live in.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:01 pm

JonnyUtah wrote: Is he too young to be taken off leash and into fields?

Nope. I didn't even allow my dog ON a leash till he was 4 or 5 months old. Off leash is crucial at this point when he's still young and wants to stick close to you. Hang that thing up for awhile.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:25 pm

Good advice above.

They learn this trick fast.

"Once we get close to the car or end of the trail, he will bolt and refuses to come close to me... He knows the hike is over and no amount of treats or praise will entice him! ".

Return in a circle and leash him before he gets the picture.

JonnyUtah · Post by **JonnyUtah** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:48 pm

Thanks for the replies! Sounds like I might need more patience and better treats!

Our morning hikes are the best part of the day, but I guess my biggest concern is getting him to come to me at the end of the hike when it's time to go home... Maybe more training with "come" every day? Could it be an issue with him not respecting/considering me as the boss? I hate calling for him to come while he ignores me... Seems like I'm teaching him a bad habit of not coming when called.

Do I just sit and wait? If I try to walk toward him he would keep running away. And this only happens when we are close to the car and it seems like he knows car means no more field. Now I'm wondering if by using the leash for walks he has learned to hate it...

shags · Post by **shags** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:06 pm

^^^ This. But I would add that it helps to call the pup in, praise, then release him a couple random times during your outing. Sometimes mix it up by leashing him for a minute or so, then release. Don't get in the habit of calling him to go home at the same spot or after approximately the same amount of time out. The idea is to keep him eager to recall to you, and to never allow him to anticipate that fun time is over.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:56 pm

I put a check cord on them. It is really aggravating trying to catch him as he gets bigger and faster. You will teach him that he does not have to come when called and to run away.
I really don't want my 15 week old pup out 500 yds. too many bad things can happen......Cj

randomnut · Post by **randomnut** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:24 pm

Not sure there, but most others have WAY more experience than I. That said, in all honesty, my pup never saw a leash till he was about 5 months old, and we walk/run about three miles a day. We live in town, but have plenty of access to private and public ground.

My pup is no ankle biter neither. I did get aggrevated at times I was ready to leave and he ignored me, but I got the dog to hunt, not ride around and look pretty. When he is uninterested in other smells, he'll listen pretty well.

I'm having to get a handle on him now, at almost 8 months, but I've seen his littermates in action and there is no comparison.
He has more drive than any dog I've ever seen.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:24 pm

I'm sure there are bad things that could happen but in the past 60 years it never has.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:25 pm

If the dog is venturing too far out for your liking, do as Ezzy said. HIDE. The pup will come looking for you. You can also change direction, including an about face. A lot of this hinges on your being quiet. If you are calling for the dog , it knows exactly where YOU are and thus could not care. If you are quiet, the dog has to keep an eye on you, because it can't hear you. It is somewhat counter-intuitive, but the quieter you are in the field, the closer the dog will want to be to stay in touch. Don't wait until the pup gets too far out before you do something. Keep the dog guessing by actively handl9ing it when it is still close. Change direction, stop, mill around in a spot, call the dog in...keep the dog watching for its next cue from you.

If the dog is too bold for your taste at this point in time, try taking it into higher, tougher, more difficult cover. Bucking cover will tire out and slow a youngster right on down and the higher cover will make it that much more difficult for the youngster to keep track of you so it will want to stay close for that reason also.

I also call my dogs in periodically during a run. I call them in, give them a squirt or two of water, a pat on the flank and send them out again. I often run dogs in dry, birdless places so they get in the habit of keeping an eye on me, and coming in when I call...because I am the one with the water.

I am not against a dog wearing a checkcord, but make sure you use a substantial one that will lay down and slide through the cover... not be flying in the breeze as the dog runs. and shorter is better than longer with checkcords in the field. A light 1/4" thick length of nylon or poly rope is a disaster waiting to happen. It WILL catch on stuff and could injure your dog(or worse) if it is running hard and the rope tangles on something and brings it to a sudden stop.

RayG

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:32 pm

In my experience with my 2 Britts when they are 12 weeks old they aren't that hard to run down... however I am very young so this may be different for others

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:07 pm

I use a 1/2 inch Stiff rope 20 ft. checkcord it lays out in the rain and mud and gets stiffer as it ages. It never tangles. Wear gloves because it will burn clear to the bone even with a 30 pound pup on the end.
The pups learn to deal with it. it does not inhibit them and I can casually pick it up as they run by. At 15 weeks you might run the pup down, but he does not like it and I want him learning coming to me is not a bad thing. Sometimes I praise them up and let them go, sometimes I give them some water and a treat and let the go. some times we all go to the truck. I do not pick up the cord when we get to the truck everytime. sometimes near the truck and sometimes far. Be careful the messages you send and do not have a pattern...Cj

oldbeek · Post by **oldbeek** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:27 pm

My britt would range to 500 yards at 12 weeks. I use a cheap harbor freight 1/4 inch air hose for a check cord. Works great. Do not train a Brittany to sit. They already have a problem ( from Breeding) laying down on point. If they sit under pressure, they will lie down under pressure. Three Britts back I bought an E- collar. I was always wondering where the dog was in heavy cover. getting frustrated ect. One hit on the vibrate button and she would check in.

NEhomer · Post by **NEhomer** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:55 am

I would suggest a short check cord along with the other good advice.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:15 am

oldbeek wrote:My britt would range to 500 yards at 12 weeks. I use a cheap harbor freight 1/4 inch air hose for a check cord. Works great. Do not train a Brittany to sit. They already have a problem ( from Breeding) laying down on point. If they sit under pressure, they will lie down under pressure. Three Britts back I bought an E- collar. I was always wondering where the dog was in heavy cover. getting frustrated ect. One hit on the vibrate button and she would check in.

After having, breeding, and training Brits for over 60 yea5s this is the first time I have ever heard that Britts have a problem of laying down on point. I did have a Lew a few years back that would lay down if she had to hold the point or the back for a while but that is the only dog I eve saw do it. I wouldn't teach any dog to sit till after the field training was complete but it sure isn't breed originated. If you have seen that problem it must be just in whateve line you have since I am sure it isn't universal.

Ezzy

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:11 pm

ruffbritt4 wrote:In my experience with my 2 Britts when they are 12 weeks old they aren't that hard to run down... however I am very young so this may be different for others

Good advice. If the dog thinks you can run it down , many problems can be solved. Unfortunately, mine have figured out that I am too old to run them down now.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:35 pm

when mine get the opinion they run the show and can ignore me it's time to E-collar condition them

JonnyUtah · Post by **JonnyUtah** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:10 pm

Thanks for the advice!!

I thought about using the check cord but worried it would get hung up on something and potentially harm him. I tried it this morning in the park with just his leash and it seemed to work pretty well.
I think I will also take him to somewhere he is not familiar with so it isn't so easy for him to know when the hike is over.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:50 pm

I agree Bobman , but not at 12 weeks old as originally posted.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:16 pm

used correctly at the proper level they are no different than a check cord IMO for me it's not chronological age it's how they act some are bold

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:35 pm

cjhills wrote:I use a 1/2 inch Stiff rope 20 ft. checkcord it lays out in the rain and mud and gets stiffer as it ages. It never tangles. Wear gloves because it will burn clear to the bone even with a 30 pound pup on the end.
The pups learn to deal with it. it does not inhibit them and I can casually pick it up as they run by. At 15 weeks you might run the pup down, but he does not like it and I want him learning coming to me is not a bad thing. Sometimes I praise them up and let them go, sometimes I give them some water and a treat and let the go. some times we all go to the truck. I do not pick up the cord when we get to the truck everytime. sometimes near the truck and sometimes far. Be careful the messages you send and do not have a pattern...Cj

"But he does not like it"
Really...? The pup isn't always going to like it, but it's something that will teach them you sure can get them

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:07 pm

ruffbritt4 wrote:
cjhills wrote:I use a 1/2 inch Stiff rope 20 ft. checkcord it lays out in the rain and mud and gets stiffer as it ages. It never tangles. Wear gloves because it will burn clear to the bone even with a 30 pound pup on the end.
The pups learn to deal with it. it does not inhibit them and I can casually pick it up as they run by. At 15 weeks you might run the pup down, but he does not like it and I want him learning coming to me is not a bad thing. Sometimes I praise them up and let them go, sometimes I give them some water and a treat and let the go. some times we all go to the truck. I do not pick up the cord when we get to the truck everytime. sometimes near the truck and sometimes far. Be careful the messages you send and do not have a pattern...Cj
"But he does not like it"
Really...? The pup isn't always going to like it, but it's something that will teach them you sure can get them

Well, that's just it. When the dog gets a bit older you sure can not get him by running him down. All you teach him is that he can run away. When you get a bit older you have to learn to train with your brain....Cj

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:27 am

cjhills wrote:
ruffbritt4 wrote:
cjhills wrote:I use a 1/2 inch Stiff rope 20 ft. checkcord it lays out in the rain and mud and gets stiffer as it ages. It never tangles. Wear gloves because it will burn clear to the bone even with a 30 pound pup on the end.
The pups learn to deal with it. it does not inhibit them and I can casually pick it up as they run by. At 15 weeks you might run the pup down, but he does not like it and I want him learning coming to me is not a bad thing. Sometimes I praise them up and let them go, sometimes I give them some water and a treat and let the go. some times we all go to the truck. I do not pick up the cord when we get to the truck everytime. sometimes near the truck and sometimes far. Be careful the messages you send and do not have a pattern...Cj
"But he does not like it"
Really...? The pup isn't always going to like it, but it's something that will teach them you sure can get them
Well, that's just it. When the dog gets a bit older you sure can not get him by running him down. All you teach him is that he can run away. When you get a bit older you have to learn to train with your brain....Cj

The thing is, for me they don't run away. Believe me I'm training with my brain.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:54 am

ruffbritt4:
One more thought.
Is it better to chase a twelve week old pup around the prairie and scare the crap out of her, or pick up a check cord and reel her in.
Remember we are talking about the OPs dog. I believe he said she runs away when they get near the vehicle.
My vote is for the check cord..........................Cj

shags · Post by **shags** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:14 am

Something else to think about...how about you go to run him down because he ignored your recall, is bopping around, and you have to enforce your command. So you chase him around for 5 minutes then get within 10-15 feet of the dog, and he turns and comes to you. Now what? You can't punish him, praising him does nothing to fix the original ignore, and just grabbing him and putting him up cements it further in his mind that coming to you means the end of fun time.

A stiff checkcord works great on youngish pups, and ecollar after that. It's easy to step on the CC, then give your recall command, and reel him in. That little bit of pressure on his collar helps to transition to the ecollar when you decide to switch.

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:45 am

Cjhills,
I vote checkcord, never said I don't use one. That's what I meant by saying chase them down. Don't understand how you'd scare them though.
Shags,
If he ignored you then ran away for 5 minutes, he knew he was ignoring you. A correction would be necessary, not a hard correction, but something to tell the pup that next time you come to me when I tell you. If you don't do anything about it, the 5 minutes will turn into 10, and so on. They need discipline, not a heavy hand. My dog knows not to ignore me.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:27 pm

The easiest solution is to hide when the dog isn't looking. He's 12 weeks old... doesn't need a leash or check cord. This is a baby. If you hide behind a tree he'll get worried and look for you. This teaches your dog early on to keep track of where you are and check in.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:05 pm

shags wrote:^^^ This. But I would add that it helps to call the pup in, praise, then release him a couple random times during your outing. Sometimes mix it up by leashing him for a minute or so, then release. Don't get in the habit of calling him to go home at the same spot or after approximately the same amount of time out. The idea is to keep him eager to recall to you, and to never allow him to anticipate that fun time is over.

I totally agree with Shags. In addition to calling in just to love him up, I would offer him water. I also keep a dish of water at the truck.

JonnyUtah · Post by **JonnyUtah** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:12 am

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
shags wrote:^^^ This. But I would add that it helps to call the pup in, praise, then release him a couple random times during your outing. Sometimes mix it up by leashing him for a minute or so, then release. Don't get in the habit of calling him to go home at the same spot or after approximately the same amount of time out. The idea is to keep him eager to recall to you, and to never allow him to anticipate that fun time is over.
I totally agree with Shags. In addition to calling in just to love him up, I would offer him water. I also keep a dish of water at the truck.

I did this this morning on our hike. I left a check cord on him and every once in a while brought him in, then let him go. Couple times the check cord got wrapped around some sage bushes and I could hear him crying because he was stuck. He actually figured out how to get loose and just kept on going.

Once we got back to the car I held on the the check cord and worked on having him come to me a few times. I think I'll take some water next time... He could care less about any treats I have when he's out in the field.

getzapped · Post by **getzapped** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:04 pm

The checkcord should be of the stiff variety. It wont snag as easily. I learned that the hard way.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:24 pm

JonnyUtah wrote:Hi, I am a new owner of a 12 week old Brittany Spaniel, and new to the forum... I am currently going through basic obedience training with our brittany.

Questions:
Is he too young to be taken off leash and into fields? Am I setting myself and him up for failure if he goes after a bird or rabbit and I can't get him back?
Should he always be on a leash until he has the basic obedience down?

Thanks for any responses!
Jon

12 weeks old , ''Basic obedience'' ?...what's that to a pup that has a head full of broken bottles and bumble bees ?
'Basic Conditioning' is about all this one ''AND'' any other breed requires. First one being 'RE-call'

..the next one being 'Re-call' and when that's done you can start on 'Re-call' .
A brit or a Spanner or a retriever 12 week old pup ain't gonna go no where unless you allow it ! ...?

By that I mean , 'No need for long line in a field ' or 'Check cord' or 'Leash' ! For that matter you don't even require 'food' ! :roll: ,,Shock /Horror ! Mother of god?...what are you saying man ?????

How the heck am I gonna get this dog to not run after a rabbit or other critter ?...
Hmmm?............You mean , because it already knows what the value is ?..Howzatt ? then ?..they are taught this in the womb ?

lol.

Best get a Parrot and teach it to sit on a perch,if one can't condition a pup from 8 weeks to 12 weeks to 'come in' . Especially at chow time

.

Mine don't have a collar or lead on them until they are around 5 months old ! By that time they are already conditioned to have that 'line' on them

..
Hunting is something that is already in the dog ?.....Take a clip/saying from the prominent man that started much of modern training ?
""If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart."
Understanding this may give an insight that every restraint you put upon the young dog you are losing what was already there

How You personally go about this is up to you

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:31 pm

I've owned a fair selection of dog breeds including brittanies and I'm another one that takes pups out into the country just as soon as possible and then hides from them from time to time. Sometimes I call them as I hide, sometimes I don't. With a young pup "hiding" can simply mean going into a crouch or kneeling among longish grass. I also watch the pup as it runs ahead of me in woodlands and if it takes a fork to the right then I take the fork to the left, call the pup and let it worry about finding me.

Doing this has always worked for me.

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:51 pm

Trekmoor wrote: Doing this has always worked for me.

Bill T.

Right up until You 'lost one' for four days

....
But seriously. Bill is right and shows with recent events personal to him that the 'conditioning' he speaks of in regards 'letting the pup AT 12 WEEKS OLD' worry about where you are rather than you worry about where It is , Is relevant in these early weeks! ..Bill, only had the dog for a few days and it was at an age of 6 months ?......
Perhaps this very basic of conditioning was not installed? ..Then when you apply the principle without conditioning , the result is not what the 'Text books' or the very learned posters advice ?>>>>> The Internet and Forums are 'Not' the best places for specific advice

They are great however for General advice and chat

............
Glad to hear your pup is now back with you and on track Bill

Keep in touch mate.
Robert.

Dakotazeb · Post by **Dakotazeb** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:29 am

JonnyUtah wrote:Hi, I am a new owner of a 12 week old Brittany Spaniel, and new to the forum...

Just an FYI. The term Spaniel was officially dropped from the Brittany name in 1982.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:15 am

I live in Saratoga also, feel free to call me anytime and I can help you out.

Thanks,

Josh

801-494-9977

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:57 pm

Now there's a $1000. offer. Very nice.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:16 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:
JonnyUtah wrote:Hi, I am a new owner of a 12 week old Brittany Spaniel, and new to the forum...
Just an FYI. The term Spaniel was officially dropped from the Brittany name in 1982.

It took 40 years for the AKC to recognize the wishes of the American Brittany Club, spaniel was dropped from its name in 1942 when the club was formed. I have never heard spaniel used by a serious breeder.

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:59 pm

Neil wrote:
Dakotazeb wrote:
JonnyUtah wrote:Hi, I am a new owner of a 12 week old Brittany Spaniel, and new to the forum...
Just an FYI. The term Spaniel was officially dropped from the Brittany name in 1982.
It took 40 years for the AKC to recognize the wishes of the American Brittany Club, spaniel was dropped from its name in 1942 when the club was formed. I have never heard spaniel used by a serious breeder.

I thought it was 1982 but yes they are just a Brittany now. And I agree with Sharon what a great opportunity that would be, you'd learn a lot

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:12 pm

In 1942 the American Brittany Club was formed, dropping spaniel from the name. AKC allowed the club name, but continued to use spaniel themselves.

As you say, 40 years later AKC finally acquiesced and formally allowed the change in 1982. It was a significant battle. So we called them Brittanies, while AKC called them Brittany Spaniels.

JonnyUtah · Post by **JonnyUtah** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:26 am

Elkhunter wrote:I live in Saratoga also, feel free to call me anytime and I can help you out.

Thanks,

Josh

801-494-9977

Thanks, Josh! I would love some help! I have been using much of the advice on this thread and it's been working pretty well, but I know I could use some help from an expert...

Your offer is greatly appreciated!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:33 pm

JonnyUtah wrote:
Elkhunter wrote:I live in Saratoga also, feel free to call me anytime and I can help you out.

Thanks,

Josh

801-494-9977

Thanks, Josh! I would love some help! I have been using much of the advice on this thread and it's been working pretty well, but I know I could use some help from an expert...

Your offer is greatly appreciated!

Great stuff ! Grasp it ..
No ''History required either''