Pointer's first season

[mnaj_springer]

This fall is my Pointer's first season and my first season with a pointer. Kind of like the blind leading the blind. I'm curious how more experienced folks here hunt with a pointing dog its first year. My plan is to hunt her a lot, get a lot of bird contacts, and shoot birds she points long enough for me to get even with her or in front of her. She's a year old but we got a late start together.

How do you do it? And why?

[ruffbritt4]

I'm in the same boat, my brit will be 8 months come the start of grouse season. She is gun broke and been on birds so I plan to let her learn from the king. I will try to get her as many contacts as possible without pressure from me. Maybe if we are lucky she will even point one and I may be able to get a shot off, and if we are really lucky I might actually hit it and reward her for her good work. I won't shoot any bumped birds. I think she will adjust to wild birds better than my older brit because he was on way more planted/stocked birds before he was on grouse. This caused him to want to crowd, but I think my pup that hasn't been on too many will adjust easier. Good luck this season

[Sharon]

Be careful about getting in front of a green broke dog to shoot. I almost lost a toe doing that. I got in front , took the safety off , dog broke , banged against my leg ... you know the rest.

[Neil]

Most will disagree, but I shoot every bird that comes within range; if pointed, knocked, or flushed wild, and continue to train.

I suspect I have dumb dogs, they do not point and stay steady based on a understanding of the relationship of their point, my shot and the fall of game, but only because I train them to.

From the time I get them, we work on staunch and steady, almost as much as finding wild birds.

So my advice is enjoy the hunt and kill some birds. I have been known to shoot a bird, correct the dog, and shoot again. Keep in mind, I field trial my hunting dogs with some success.

Wishing you happy days afield.

[RayGubernat]

mnaj -

Until I started field trialing, my dogs were staunch only. When the bird went up...they went with it. Never had a problem with that kind of performance and killed a whole lot of birds.

Bottom line...it was normal to expect a first year, 10 or 11 month old dog to do just fine in the field. They would occasionally bust and chase, but I didn't care. I shot anyway. The only thing I insisted on was a pretty solid recall.

The only caution I will give you is to avoid groups of hunters and barrages of gunfire for the first year. I know you probably already know that, but I gotta say it.

RayG

[mnaj_springer]

Thanks for the advice. I'm glad you said that Ray. I plan to hunt her with just me or me and my younger brother (he's 15 and I'm working hard to get him into our sport), so no big groups!

[gonehuntin']

If I have a good dog, I'm one of those strange people that loves their first year in the field. They just make me laugh. All of the emotions they show; excitement, fear, puzzlement, uncertainty, over exuberance; I love watching them grow. I differ from Ray and Neil in that I will never shoot a bird they bust. Now, what I mean here is that if I see the dog whirl or stop on scent then road in on the bird or charge it, I will never shoot that bird. If the dog points the bird, holds it until I'm close enough for a shot, I'll shoot it. The dog has to make an effort. I'll also verbally berate the dog if he busts the bird but never pressure it in the first year. If he relocates and bust the bird, I'll shoot it if I'm close enough. I also, once a dog is that age, never let them chase a bird other than for a jump or two.

[blanked]

Shooting birds for pup who flash points then bust does 2 things. It shows pup the both of you are a team and this is what your after

[mnaj_springer]

Gonehuntin, how do you enforce the not chasing while hunting? And what steps have you taken in training for this as well?

I'm curious because she still chases.

[gonehuntin']

Once a dog is past it's puppy stage, say six months, I can see no value that comes from chasing birds. From day one my dog's handle a ton of birds, both retireving and pointing so building any kind of desire in them is never needed. Chasing is only a problem that grows more ingrained as the dog ages.

From the time they're babies, say 4-5 months they wear a 1/8" puppy cc. I'll pop the traps let them chase for a few yards, then toot the whistle twice and gently snub them up on the cc. By the time they're 6-7 months they're on a regular cc and when they chase I'll give two tweets and tip them over. Starting to enforce more strongly now. ON a pup there are only two commands I ever strongly enforce. Those commands are NO and HERE. So now, the pup will wear an ecollar and a cc all the time. When he tries to run in the house ahead of me, I'll command NO, HERE and give sharp little tugs on the cc, urging him toward me. This is the very start of the de-bolting proceedure which EVERY dog should go through. Now he'll be about eight months old. I'll start tapping him very lightly with the collar and only for here. When we're free running in birdless fields, every once in a while I'll blow three blasts of the whistle to call him toward me and if he doesn't come, immediately tap him LIGHTLY with the collar. When he comes to me I'll praise the heck out of him and resume our walk, testing him every bit on the HERE but never often enough to make him tentative about ranging out.

We'll go into out first season at 9-10 months old. He'll have learned in the yard to stand him birds and come on a cc. Now I'll let him put it kind of together, mostly letting him enjoy himself. If he busts a bird, I don't shoot it. If he chases, I'll tweet him off the bird and enforce lightly with the collar if I have to but I will NEVER hit him hard with the collar. I hardly ever have a dog I have to.

When the season is over I'll obedience train the dog, force fetch him, and fully collar break him, teaching him to stop, come, and go with the collar. By his second season he'll be a fully trained dog that only needs wild birds and time in the field to finish him. I love a dog's first year in the field.

[mnaj_springer]

Thanks for the explanation. My pup is a year, but she was over 6 months when I got her, and had no previous experience, so that was my Day One. So at that point I started her like a new puppy. So her training age is not the same her chronological age.

[gonehuntin']

I think that's the right way to do it. I start every dog as a pup regardless of age until I'm sure where they're at. What you.'ll find is that the older may start like a pup bug they progress much, much, faster.

[Soarer31]

Lot of different opinions here,
I'm in the group of shooting flushed, bumped or pointerd birds,as for "chasing" first year I pretty much let them chase all they like, but the second season I stop them with the whistle ,

[Trekmoor]

I'm another one with a different opinion. I don't think letting a dog retrieve flushed birds makes it keener on hunting and/or pointing game . Letting a dog retrieve game makes it keener on running in to retrieve it.
My dogs seem to hunt and point well enough for the reward of occasionally finding game.

I train steadiness to flush, then steadiness to shot, then steadiness to fall of game (in the form of training dummies) as three separate steadiness exercises before finally combining the three and actually shooting a flushed bird. If circumstances permit, and they usually do, I leave my dog at the sit then walk forward and pick up that first bird myself .....and then put it back down where it fell. Then I walk back to my dog and, having demonstrated that the bird is mine, I then send the dog for the bird.

Bill T.

[gundogguy]

I'm another one with a different opinion. I don't think letting a dog retrieve flushed birds makes it keener on hunting and/or pointing game . Letting a dog retrieve game makes it keener on running in to retrieve it.
My dogs seem to hunt and point well enough for the reward of occasionally finding game.

I train steadiness to flush, then steadiness to shot, then steadiness to fall of game (in the form of training dummies) as three separate steadiness exercises before finally combining the three and actually shooting a flushed bird. If circumstances permit, and they usually do, I leave my dog at the sit then walk forward and pick up that first bird myself .....and then put it back down where it fell. Then I walk back to my dog and, having demonstrated that the bird is mine, I then send the dog for the bird.

Bill T.

When it comes to pointing dog, +1, I'm in that same pew!

[mnaj_springer]

I was out grouse hunting last weekend. She found a grouse for me but it flushed. I'm not certain of the circumstances though because of the leaf cover. My best guess (based on her body language) is she made the find and began to chase when the bird started to flush, or she began to chase when she SAW the bird running on the ground. Either way, I know she could see the bird just before was head height. Given she has never truly hunted wild birds, I'm glad she's learning.

We'll be out again this weekend and she'll get another go at it.

[Neil]

Glad it is going well.

As I said earlier, I train for steady from the time I get them, I enforce it based on their maturity and understanding.

I hear others say they never use whoa or the e-collar around birds, if I did not, I wouldn't have much need for either. (I do use the e-collar on the neck for patterning).

There are a number of ways to train, I think you have found one that works.

[mnaj_springer]

Another update here. Went out grouse hunting today. She put on about 20 miles today and worked hard. She had a find that she busted in on. I didn't even fire the gun. About 15 minutes later she followed some foot scent back into the woods and then BOOM! Locked up solid, mid-step. Her hair on her back stood up and tail raised higher than any other point I've seen in training. Then the bird ran, she tried locating and it flushed. I took a long shot, mostly to let her know she got it right.

That was the "ah-ha" moment I've been waiting for. I know she bumped it relocating, but at 13 months old, I'm not upset with that.

[33Scout]

Sounds like pup when be pinning birds in no time.

[mboss]

Since it's a thread on Pointer's first season I thought I would ask my question here instead of starting a new one. I am getting my GSP back (12 mo old) from the trainer on Saturday. I've been out to work with him and the trainer each past week, and have been shooting birds over him on those days the past 3. He points and holds staunch, and is retrieving now. As I said I get him back on Saturday... BUT, I won't be able to get him out hunting for two weeks after that, as I will have to travel a bit for work. This is probably a dumb question but will this have a negative impact on his new training by taking a couple weeks off? I will be doing fetching drills and things with him over that time but no shooting.

[Evanman2010]

Glad to hear your pup is doing great in the woods! Im in the same boat, with my pup being 9 months old this is his first season, took him on one hunting trip 2 weeks ago and going on another one this weekend. He flushed and chased his first wild bird but after many tries and lost birds he started to realize that technique isent working, he is starting to slow down and learn how the game works when he gets birdy. For right now the experience is best for him. Keep up the hard work and good luck.

[mnaj_springer]

Ok I thought I'd update and ask another question rather than opening another thread.

So far we've had a good season. I've gotten her on grouse, woodcock, and pheasant. She's got a ton of drive, she works to the front, checks in occasionally, has a subperb nose, and has a lot of intensity on point. So far she's bumped some birds early in the year, but after gaining some experience has had some solid points and has relocated cautiously when necessary.

To my question... Just before Thanksgiving I went out grouse hunting. She had a couple solid points that morning. Later she got birdy and worked cautiously but never pointed. Turns out 5 grouse flushed out of that spot. Yesterday we were chasing pheasant, and a similar thing happened... Birdy and cautious, but no point and 3 hens popped out. It didn't seem like she wanted to bust the birds, but also seemed unsure of where the bird(s) was.

Has anyone else experienced this with a young dog, having trouble with coveys of birds?

[setterpoint]

it depends on what you want some like the dog to break on the flush some like break on the shot some train to hold untill told to in my op .you do what you want your buying the dog food no right or wrong if the dog hunts points and hold untill you flush the flush the bird the rest is up to you who am i to say your doing it wrong

[Sharon]

THis is Saturday:

Another update here. Went out grouse hunting today. She put on about 20 miles today and worked hard. She had a find that she busted in on. I didn't even fire the gun. About 15 minutes later she followed some foot scent back into the woods and then BOOM! Locked up solid, mid-step. Her hair on her back stood up and tail raised higher than any other point I've seen in training. Then the bird ran, she tried locating and it flushed. I took a long shot, mostly to let her know she got it right.

That was the "ah-ha" moment I've been waiting for. I know she bumped it relocating, but at 13 months old, I'm not upset with that.

mnaj_springer
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THis is Thursday:

Just before Thanksgiving I went out grouse hunting. She had a couple solid points that morning. Later she got birdy and worked cautiously but never pointed. Turns out 5 grouse flushed out of that spot. Yesterday we were chasing pheasant, and a similar thing happened... Birdy and cautious, but no point and 3 hens popped out. It didn't seem like she wanted to bust the birds, but also seemed unsure of where the bird(s) was." quote mnaj_springer


Did anything different happen in between those two days ? Different gun? If nothing different happened, then I'd say the "covey situation" threw her off. Not unusual.

[mnaj_springer]

Thanks Sharon. I suspected that was the issue, but was wondering if others experienced this. I hadn't ever seen that many ruffies sitting together, so neither has she. It seems she wants to be certain of the location before pointing the bird.