Gun Breaking After Bird Work

love2hunt · Post by **love2hunt** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:39 pm

I have been reading into the "Training with Mo" PDF from Steady with Style, and I started doing a little (very little, once every couple weeks) bird work with my Llewellin following his method.

The issue is, I am only able to work in my backyard right now (1.5-2 acres), and I cannot shoot any guns due to neighbors. So, she is still not gun-proofed. I am working on access to somewhere that I can shoot, but I've been hitting roadblocks.

My question is, do I need to pause the bird work until she is broke to the gun? Or, can I continue the bird work (i.e. teaching her to hold point, steady to flush) while I'm looking for a place to use a gun?

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:18 pm

Keep getting her into birds, I don't see why you would have to take a break.

love2hunt · Post by **love2hunt** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:46 pm

ruffbritt4 wrote:Keep getting her into birds, I don't see why you would have to take a break.

I couldn't see why either, but every training method I've researched has gun breaking as a prerequisite to obedience and bird work. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't gonna mess it up by flip-flopping it!

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:19 pm

The only thing I could possibly think of was maybe putting too much pressure on the dog? Thats the one thing I would avoid. What method are you reading that has gun intro before bird work?She's a pup, let her be one.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:36 pm

love2hunt wrote:I have been reading into the "Training with Mo" PDF from Steady with Style, and I started doing a little (very little, once every couple weeks) bird work with my Llewellin following his method.

The issue is, I am only able to work in my backyard right now (1.5-2 acres), and I cannot shoot any guns due to neighbors. So, she is still not gun-proofed. I am working on access to somewhere that I can shoot, but I've been hitting roadblocks.

My question is, do I need to pause the bird work until she is broke to the gun? Or, can I continue the bird work (i.e. teaching her to hold point, steady to flush) while I'm looking for a place to use a gun?

Just a quick question. Have you thought of using a child's cap pistol? That would be all you need to start with. If someone objects to that, they are being completely unreasonable and you can tell them just that. It is, after all, only a toy that makes noise and completely legal to use.

RayG

love2hunt · Post by **love2hunt** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:04 pm

ruffbritt4 wrote:The only thing I could possibly think of was maybe putting too much pressure on the dog? Thats the one thing I would avoid. What method are you reading that has gun intro before bird work?She's a pup, let her be one.

Hmmm that could be why. Both the Training with Mo and Huntsmith method use birds to get them broke to the gun, but before the more serious bird work. She's 10 months now, so we are keeping it fun with little pressure at this point.

love2hunt · Post by **love2hunt** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:05 pm

RayGubernat wrote:
love2hunt wrote:I have been reading into the "Training with Mo" PDF from Steady with Style, and I started doing a little (very little, once every couple weeks) bird work with my Llewellin following his method.

The issue is, I am only able to work in my backyard right now (1.5-2 acres), and I cannot shoot any guns due to neighbors. So, she is still not gun-proofed. I am working on access to somewhere that I can shoot, but I've been hitting roadblocks.

My question is, do I need to pause the bird work until she is broke to the gun? Or, can I continue the bird work (i.e. teaching her to hold point, steady to flush) while I'm looking for a place to use a gun?

Just a quick question. Have you thought of using a child's cap pistol? That would be all you need to start with. If someone objects to that, they are being completely unreasonable and you can tell them just that. It is, after all, only a toy that makes noise and completely legal to use.

RayG

You know, I've heard of that before, but I didn't think about using it where I'm at. Good suggestion! I'm gonna go get one tomorrow.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:41 pm

love2hunt wrote:
RayGubernat wrote:
love2hunt wrote:I have been reading into the "Training with Mo" PDF from Steady with Style, and I started doing a little (very little, once every couple weeks) bird work with my Llewellin following his method.

The issue is, I am only able to work in my backyard right now (1.5-2 acres), and I cannot shoot any guns due to neighbors. So, she is still not gun-proofed. I am working on access to somewhere that I can shoot, but I've been hitting roadblocks.

My question is, do I need to pause the bird work until she is broke to the gun? Or, can I continue the bird work (i.e. teaching her to hold point, steady to flush) while I'm looking for a place to use a gun?

Just a quick question. Have you thought of using a child's cap pistol? That would be all you need to start with. If someone objects to that, they are being completely unreasonable and you can tell them just that. It is, after all, only a toy that makes noise and completely legal to use.

RayG
You know, I've heard of that before, but I didn't think about using it where I'm at. Good suggestion! I'm gonna go get one tomorrow.

And after you have desensitized your neighbors to the sound of a capgun going off while you are training, you can sneak out a starter's pistol and fire a shot. Have the capgun handy in case any of the neighbors look at what made the louder noise.

BTW, just so you know... a starter's pistol IS NOT a firearm, as defined by the ATF, so gun type rules do not apply. It is also, essentially, a noisemaking toy. The Canadian government has a different view, but in the USA a starter's pistol with a slid barrel, which is therefore, incapable of propelling a bullet, or anything else solid, is NOT a firearm.

RayG

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:59 pm

We can legally use starter pistols here BUT if I see any other members of the public around I put it away. The reason being that someone can call the Police and say , " Some one is shooting a gun." I'll have Police pistols pointing at me and be flat on my back fast before I get a chance to say it's a starter pistol.

............................................

"Q. What is considered to be a firearm for purposes of the Firearms Act and for offences related to the Canadian Firearms Act in the Criminal Code?

As set out in the Firearms Act, "firearm" means:

A barreled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes.

Any frame or receiver of such a barreled weapon, as well as:

Anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm.

Following are some weapons and devices that meet the definition of a firearm but that are deemed not to be firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act and related offences in the Criminal Code. Some of these items are exempted from the definition only if they were designed exclusively for a specific purpose and are intended to be used exclusively for that purpose by the person who possesses it. However, all of the items listed below are considered to be firearms if used in a criminal or negligent manner.

Antique firearms;

Devices designed exclusively for signaling, for notifying of distress, for firing blank cartridges, or for firing stud cartridges, explosive-driven rivets, or other industrial projectiles." quote

http://www.replicaairguns.com/posts/201 ... -laws.html

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:03 am

To make it impossible for anyone to have a complaint to the police about "bangs" being taken seriously I use Party Poppers with the coloured ribbons removed before use.

Bill T.

Gunner55 · Post by **Gunner55** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:07 am

love2hunt wrote:
RayGubernat wrote:
love2hunt wrote:I have been reading into the "Training with Mo" PDF from Steady with Style, and I started doing a little (very little, once every couple weeks) bird work with my Llewellin following his method.

The issue is, I am only able to work in my backyard right now (1.5-2 acres), and I cannot shoot any guns due to neighbors. So, she is still not gun-proofed. I am working on access to somewhere that I can shoot, but I've been hitting roadblocks.

My question is, do I need to pause the bird work until she is broke to the gun? Or, can I continue the bird work (i.e. teaching her to hold point, steady to flush) while I'm looking for a place to use a gun?

Just a quick question. Have you thought of using a child's cap pistol? That would be all you need to start with. If someone objects to that, they are being completely unreasonable and you can tell them just that. It is, after all, only a toy that makes noise and completely legal to use.

RayG
You know, I've heard of that before, but I didn't think about using it where I'm at. Good suggestion! I'm gonna go get one tomorrow.

That is what I did, used a cap gun.

GSP4ME · Post by **GSP4ME** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:49 pm

love2hunt wrote:
RayGubernat wrote:
love2hunt wrote:I have been reading into the "Training with Mo" PDF from Steady with Style, and I started doing a little (very little, once every couple weeks) bird work with my Llewellin following his method.

The issue is, I am only able to work in my backyard right now (1.5-2 acres), and I cannot shoot any guns due to neighbors. So, she is still not gun-proofed. I am working on access to somewhere that I can shoot, but I've been hitting roadblocks.

My question is, do I need to pause the bird work until she is broke to the gun? Or, can I continue the bird work (i.e. teaching her to hold point, steady to flush) while I'm looking for a place to use a gun?

Just a quick question. Have you thought of using a child's cap pistol? That would be all you need to start with. If someone objects to that, they are being completely unreasonable and you can tell them just that. It is, after all, only a toy that makes noise and completely legal to use.

RayG
You know, I've heard of that before, but I didn't think about using it where I'm at. Good suggestion! I'm gonna go get one tomorrow.

My dog got started with a cap gun. Used to just fire it every time I'd toss a toy I wanted him to fetch. Then we transitioned from a tossed toy indoors, to a frozen bird in the yard, then eventually a shotgun in the field.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:00 pm

love2hunt wrote:I have been reading into the "Training with Mo" PDF from Steady with Style, and I started doing a little (very little, once every couple weeks) bird work with my Llewellin following his method.

The issue is, I am only able to work in my backyard right now (1.5-2 acres), and I cannot shoot any guns due to neighbors. So, she is still not gun-proofed. I am working on access to somewhere that I can shoot, but I've been hitting roadblocks.

My question is, do I need to pause the bird work until she is broke to the gun? Or, can I continue the bird work (i.e. teaching her to hold point, steady to flush) while I'm looking for a place to use a gun?

Looks like you will not be following the program then?

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:07 am

love2hunt wrote:I have been reading into the "Training with Mo" PDF from Steady with Style, and I started doing a little (very little, once every couple weeks) bird work with my Llewellin following his method.

The issue is, I am only able to work in my backyard right now (1.5-2 acres), and I cannot shoot any guns due to neighbors. So, she is still not gun-proofed. I am working on access to somewhere that I can shoot, but I've been hitting roadblocks.

My question is, do I need to pause the bird work until she is broke to the gun? Or, can I continue the bird work (i.e. teaching her to hold point, steady to flush) while I'm looking for a place to use a gun?

The big key in the gun introduction is to allow the dog to chase the bird and associate the gun with the bird and it be a positive experience. Once you have completed the gun introduction and have no issues and you start doing steadiness work not using the gun until later in the process is fine.

Mo's email is in his book. Shoot him an email and he will give you feedback. Might take him a few days as I know he is real busy right now but he will respond to you.

love2hunt · Post by **love2hunt** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:28 pm

Keep forgetting to buy the cap gun when I go to Walmart...

MillerClemsonHD, I did not know I could get in touch with him. I will do that as well. Thanks for the suggestion!

oldbeek · Post by **oldbeek** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:10 pm

To condition my young dogs to shooting, I take them out to the trap range. I start walking toward the range from 1/4 mille off. If the dog acts spooky, I back off and just play with them. I really never had a dog that would not walk right up behind the firing line. I live on 2 1/2 acres. For yard work I use primers only in my shotgun. I have notified my neighbors previously of what I am doing.

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:29 am

oldbeek wrote:To condition my young dogs to shooting, I take them out to the trap range. I start walking toward the range from 1/4 mille off. If the dog acts spooky, I back off and just play with them. I really never had a dog that would not walk right up behind the firing line. I live on 2 1/2 acres. For yard work I use primers only in my shotgun. I have notified my neighbors previously of what I am doing.

Please no one follow this advice. The gun range is the worst place and method there is for introducing gun fire. Many good dogs have been ruined this way. Good to see you have been lucky so far, but don't encourage other to test their fate as well.

love2hunt · Post by **love2hunt** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:48 pm

Did some more bird work and added the cap gun last night. I started with a released bird from 50 yards away and fired a shot. She wasn't phased. Stepped up to her kennel and did the same thing, didn't even pay attention. Then we worked 3 planted birds. The only time she looked at me when firing was when I was trying to get the stupid thing to fire and it clicked several times in a row. It was distracting for me too lol. I have some .22 blanks to use for the next step. She's coming along.

Gun Dog Forum