VIDEO: The Higgins Method: Back to the Field

[Higgins]

Been kind of quiet here lately. Thought I might put up one of my recent training videos. Some might find it interesting. The text included here is a copy of the text included with the Youtube video.

Not trying to start a war. Just sharing some dog stuff. Please enjoy it or ignore it.

https://youtu.be/HDeBXe7Ozl8

Here is a dog that recently finished the "Magic Brushpile" phase of my training. Here she is at the next phase of the Higgins Method Flowchart ( http://higginsgundogs.com/about-us/our- ... flowchart/ ), "Back to the Field". This is where we put the scent association back into the newly developed strategy. We begin this phase of training by checkcording the dog into the scent cone and controlling her movement through the scent, flush, shot, fall scenario. Soon, when she is trustworthy to be steady on scent, we turn her loose and hunt her while she drags the cord. As you can see in this video, that's where we're at with this dog. I step on the checkcord just before the flush so I can show her again that steadiness after the flush, leads to success (the bird in her mouth). A few more birds and we'll have steady to flush, shot and fall.

It's all about building trust through free will. I don't use obedience to train dogs and make them steady. My goal is to help them learn what it takes to be successful. They will then choose to be steady with all their style, intensity and drive intact because they know steadiness works.

Brad Higgins

[gundogguy]

Ah Brad, Your a check cord wizard! Good for you!

[MGIII]

Very cool. How do you correct the sitting with this method?

[Higgins]

Hello MGIII,

The sitting was not a problem and did not require correcting. That pup sat because the owner had overtrained her on a "sit" command. Sit was her comfort zone whenever she was stopped. I just ignored it. Once she chose to be steady to wing, shot and fall, without a checkcord, she stopped sitting.

Higgins

[MGIII]

Thanks. My wife and I have been taking about getting a pup next year and I'm concerned that she will over train the sit in the house. It will be my first pointing breed I train from puppy hood so I hope we don't ruin her with "in the house" training.

[Francois P vd Walt]

Nicely done!

Thank you

[shags]

Thanks. My wife and I have been taking about getting a pup next year and I'm concerned that she will over train the sit in the house. It will be my first pointing breed I train from puppy hood so I hope we don't ruin her with "in the house" training.

Very easy solution...instead of sit, teach wait (stand still). There isn't anything you can do with the dog sitting that you can't do with the dog on wait (he's standing still). Some folks think wait - or whatever you choose to say that will mean stand still - is a waste and use whoa instead, but in my world whoa mean do not move a muscle and maintain style. And that means you have to do a correction for any little movement. With wait, the dog is still but it doesn't matter if he slings his head or gets a little happy-footed. Call me lazy, but it's a lot easier than being continually strict in casual situations Especially with other family members who might not hold your same high standards

[MGIII]

Good idea shags. Thanks

[Soarer31]

Very easy solution...instead of sit, teach wait (stand still). There isn't anything you can do with the dog sitting that you can't do with the dog on wait (he's standing still). Some folks think wait - or whatever you choose to say that will mean stand still - is a waste and use whoa instead, but in my world whoa mean do not move a muscle and maintain style. And that means you have to do a correction for any little movement. With wait, the dog is still but it doesn't matter if he slings his head or gets a little happy-footed. Call me lazy, but it's a lot easier than being continually strict in casual situations Especially with other family members who might not hold your same high standards

Shags,
What do you mean by "maintain style"?
When you train dog to whoa do you style it up?...like a manufactured "point"?

The way I see it ... Every dog has its own "individual" style on point

[shags]

Manufacture a point? How would one go about that? You can teach a dog to just stand there in front of a bird, but you can't make him point.
i don't use whoa in bird work very often...maybe during an extended flush where I have to do a lot of thrashing around and the bird is runnning circles, or when there is some kind of interference from my dog's bracemate like a stolen point. At those times I don't want whoa to be a warning of impending doom should my dog move. I want whoa to mean 'Dog, you're doing great and we got this" so he stands with confidence and style. I don't want my dog to let down on birds, whatever is going on. If a bird moves off entirely, or we have a stop to flush, a *little* drop off in intensity is OK IMO. Usually I can see that in his face and head movement.

Yes each dog has its own style, and that style should be maintained through his work. To me, not much is less impressive than a dog that is loose and sloppy-looking, or appearing cowed, around his birds.

[Soarer31]

[quote="shags"]Manufacture a point? How would one go about that? quote]

Well I've seen plenty of pics with dogs that are high on both ends... Don't think that's a coincidence
Looks man made to me rather than a dogs individual style

But would that be in the breeding?

[shags]

IME you can enhance a dog's style, but you can't make it much more than what it has naturally.

A low pointing dog, what some folks refer to as a classic point, isn't going to become high tailed and high headed. Well, maybe it might if you work with it on a bird and quick snap a photo, but it will revert to what is natural to it.

On the other hand, a dog can certainly be made to lose altitude and intensity.

I like my dogs to have the high style, but I appreciate the lower type as well. The intensity in some of those is awesome. I don't like clamped or hanging tails and loose points, but that's my preference and others' mileage may vary in that regard. Ya run what ya brung.

[RayGubernat]

Manufacture a point? How would one go about that? quote]

Well I've seen plenty of pics with dogs that are high on both ends... Don't think that's a coincidence
Looks man made to me rather than a dogs individual style

But would that be in the breeding?

Very often it is both genetics AND training. Many, if not most trial bred FDSB pointers come out of the birth canal with high style. Most will point with high heads and tails if you do nothing but show them birds. I style my dogs up on a bench, on a tailgate, on the ground...whenever and wherever, starting from when they are little bitty puppies, because I want to keep and, if possible, enhance absolutely every bit of style that God and the breeder put in there AND I want the dog to maintain that style on point and afterward.

The dog's natural intensity will cause it to maintain high style until the bird is flushed. That's genetics. Any maintenance of that same high style after the flush, or in other circumstances, is the result of training.

When I stack a dog up on the line, prior to releasing it for a run, I want it to stay stacked up, high and tight, until I blow the whistle of give a release command. That's a trained response.

When I flush a bird, whether it is hunting or at a trial, I want and expect the dog to maintain that high style, after the flush and until I walk to the dog and put my hands on them. Anything after the flush and shot is a trained response.

[shags]

Anything after the flush and shot is a trained response.

I disagree mostly, because there are dogs that naturally do not let down. I have 3 of them on my sofa right now. There are training techniques to enhance and encourage dogs to stay high and tight after flush and shot, such as training with several consecutive birds per flush. Some dogs have more or less of this trait, but without any inborn, I highly doubt it can be trained in.

On the other hand, unfortunately, sometimes the dog's reaction after flush and shot ( also before and during) can be trained, and not in a good way. It's easy to tell when dogs have had too much inappropriate pressure, or have been corrected or nagged too much.

[Soarer31]

Ray,Shags,
That was very informative thanks, do you train that "high and tight " for the "whoa"?
And would a "high and tight"dog be more desirable in the judges eyes over the so called "classic style" with all else been equal in field trials?

[Higgins]

Hey Soarer31,

Great topic. Why don't you start a new thread with it?

Higgins

[shags]

Ray,Shags,
That was very informative thanks, do you train that "high and tight " for the "whoa"?
And would a "high and tight"dog be more desirable in the judges eyes over the so called "classic style" with all else been equal in field trials?

Training whoa, I stroke my dogs up once they're still in the hope that they associate the command with the stance. However, I choose dogs from breedings that have the kind of style I prefer, so I don't have headaches with it and I don't stress out over style in whoa training. Then moving on to birdwork, the methods used preserve style. I don't do much birdwork on my own anymore because of of being old and gimped up, but the trainers I use keep whatever style a dog has, in the dog. Interesting because both guys use very different methods for the same results.

I participate in FDSB and AKC trials so my observations pertain to them. IME judges in both venues value the total package and don't make decisions solely on style. Style includes both stance on point and the dogs' way of going. That being said, IME FDSB trial judges prefer high heads and tails and lower styled dogs may not find success. In AKC trials both styles are acceptable as long as the dog shows intensity. Tails below level may be a problem, but with an overall good performance they aren't necessarily dismissed.

[Sharon]

Ray,Shags,
That was very informative thanks, do you train that "high and tight " for the "whoa"?
And would a "high and tight"dog be more desirable in the judges eyes over the so called "classic style" with all else been equal in field trials?

All else is rarely equal if you understand what judges are looking for, ( hunting for the handler, intelligent use of the wind and terrain, intensity on point etc.) but "high and tight" could make a difference depending on the judge.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Typical

[Sharon]

Ray,Shags,
That was very informative thanks, do you train that "high and tight " for the "whoa"?
And would a "high and tight"dog be more desirable in the judges eyes over the so called "classic style" with all else been equal in field trials?

All else is rarely equal if you understand what judges are looking for, ( hunting for the handler, intelligent use of the wind and terrain, intensity on point etc.) but "high and tight" could make a difference depending on the judge.

........................

by Ricky Ticky Shorthairs » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:52 am

Typical

.................

What ?? Another typical great answer ? or what??

[ezzy333]

What ?? Another typical great answer ? or what??

I was wondering the same thing.

[Sharon]

We clarified it. It wasn't directed at me. whewww.