Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
Hi all,
I'm new on the board, so I apologize if my questions are fragmented or nonsensical...trying to learn!
I recently had the opportunity to get an English Setter pup from hunting/field trial parents and grandparents...to make a short story long, his breeder had to relocate a little over a year ago for work, and this boy has been living with another family, who basically just let him do his own thing. He's roughly 18 months old and has never had any obedience training, bird experience, etc. He's sweet as can be...but he's a bit of a manchild, being an untrained pup in a nearly grown body!
I'm working with him on basic obedience and keep telling myself to take it slow. He's doing great with his recall (voice and whistle) on the check cord. Last night he went 100% on the recalls, so I cut training short at about 5 minutes and just played with him awhile.
Out of curiosity, when I first brought him home, I planted a pen-raised quail in a small field next to the house and let him find it while on the check cord. Not knowing any better, I placed it under a tilt-up cage to keep him from busting it. He scented it, locked into a very pretty point, held about 20 seconds, then lunged for the bird. He got a snout full of cage, tipped it, and the bird flew off. He still seemed quite interested. After that, on 2 occasions, I've tried planting birds in the larger field behind my house. 1 time, I let him run free to find them (big mistake...with no recall yet, he ranged 2-300 yards out and I finally caught him later after crossing a highway...my mistake!). 1 time, I kept him on a long (50') check cord, so he could work around some, but not run completely away. Both times, he'd scent the birds, look at me as if he's afraid, and back away or avoid them altogether! Other than the 1 bird under the kick cage (to my knowledge, the first bird he'd ever seen), he's not had any negative experiences with birds...but I don't know that for sure. If they're in a cage or in my hand, he goes after them...on the ground, it's like he is either disinterested or scared.
My questions (at least for this second) are:
1. I'm assuming I should approach his training as if he were a young pup, just getting started...is that correct?
2. How concerning is the tendency to blink the birds? It's fairly alarming to see him point so well on the 1st and then seem scared of other birds on the ground.
3. Should I hold off on bird contact for now, work on obedience and building his trust/confidence for awhile, and then expose him to birds again?
I believe he has a high prey drive. I've seen him strike a pretty point. I hate to think I've somehow soured him on birds, but I'm not sure how I would've...any and all suggestions and advice are most welcome! I'm planning to get some training help on advanced steps...I'm hoping to handle the basic obedience myself and build as strong a bond with him as I can.
Thanks!
I'm new on the board, so I apologize if my questions are fragmented or nonsensical...trying to learn!
I recently had the opportunity to get an English Setter pup from hunting/field trial parents and grandparents...to make a short story long, his breeder had to relocate a little over a year ago for work, and this boy has been living with another family, who basically just let him do his own thing. He's roughly 18 months old and has never had any obedience training, bird experience, etc. He's sweet as can be...but he's a bit of a manchild, being an untrained pup in a nearly grown body!
I'm working with him on basic obedience and keep telling myself to take it slow. He's doing great with his recall (voice and whistle) on the check cord. Last night he went 100% on the recalls, so I cut training short at about 5 minutes and just played with him awhile.
Out of curiosity, when I first brought him home, I planted a pen-raised quail in a small field next to the house and let him find it while on the check cord. Not knowing any better, I placed it under a tilt-up cage to keep him from busting it. He scented it, locked into a very pretty point, held about 20 seconds, then lunged for the bird. He got a snout full of cage, tipped it, and the bird flew off. He still seemed quite interested. After that, on 2 occasions, I've tried planting birds in the larger field behind my house. 1 time, I let him run free to find them (big mistake...with no recall yet, he ranged 2-300 yards out and I finally caught him later after crossing a highway...my mistake!). 1 time, I kept him on a long (50') check cord, so he could work around some, but not run completely away. Both times, he'd scent the birds, look at me as if he's afraid, and back away or avoid them altogether! Other than the 1 bird under the kick cage (to my knowledge, the first bird he'd ever seen), he's not had any negative experiences with birds...but I don't know that for sure. If they're in a cage or in my hand, he goes after them...on the ground, it's like he is either disinterested or scared.
My questions (at least for this second) are:
1. I'm assuming I should approach his training as if he were a young pup, just getting started...is that correct?
2. How concerning is the tendency to blink the birds? It's fairly alarming to see him point so well on the 1st and then seem scared of other birds on the ground.
3. Should I hold off on bird contact for now, work on obedience and building his trust/confidence for awhile, and then expose him to birds again?
I believe he has a high prey drive. I've seen him strike a pretty point. I hate to think I've somehow soured him on birds, but I'm not sure how I would've...any and all suggestions and advice are most welcome! I'm planning to get some training help on advanced steps...I'm hoping to handle the basic obedience myself and build as strong a bond with him as I can.
Thanks!
- MillerClemsonHD
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 345
- Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:21 pm
- Location: Greenville South Carolina
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
Without being able to see the dog and most people will not have the experience necessary to really answer your question and give you a good plan forward. My suggestion would be to contact Maurice Lindley He is only a couple hours from you and I have personally watched him fix many dogs that were brought to him with issues. To me you would be way ahead to contact him and have him work the dog for a month or two (depending what it takes) and get it where it needs to be for you to continue on the training. This would be money well spent and you are out about the cost of a puppy and a solid foundation to start with.
Here is the link to his kennel.
http://lindleykennel.com/
Here is the link to his kennel.
http://lindleykennel.com/
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
Are you saying he smashed himself in the face with the jump box?
If so, it might have spooked him enough to blink. I would get some birds, preferably pigeons, and plant a couple locked-winged in light cover, and CC the dog into them and allow him to see the birds walking around. It might get him fired up to see them. I wouldn't mind if my dog grabbed one, but other people don't do that, so you'll have to decide. The idea is to give the dog power over the bird. IMO, blinking is a bigger harder thing to fix than grabbing birds, so there you are. So basically you're taking him back to little puppy stuff and bringing him along past where he quit on you.
Once he's OK with those birds, plant in heavier cover that requires scent pointing, and move forward from there, subbing in quail at some point. If he regresses on the quail, try going back to letting him see a couple.
Don't worry about correcting him for not being steady, and keep yourself quiet, as in silent, when you're doing bird work. No pressure from you is key. After the flush you can praise him.
You're going to have to work on that recall PDQ also. Until he is reliable at a distance, only let him loose in a safe place. At 18 months dogs can be pretty much boneheaded about doing what they want, when they want, so don't trust him around roads. If you have access to someone with an ecollar and experience using it, that would be your most surefire solution to the recall problem IMO. In the meantime do everything you can to bond with your new dog, and make him think the sun rises and sets on you, his best buddy.
Good advice above, if you can contact Mr. Lindley. Sometimes a few hours with a great trainer will save you a ton of stress and work, if you can't leave the dog for training.
Good luck, I hope you can turn things around real well.
If so, it might have spooked him enough to blink. I would get some birds, preferably pigeons, and plant a couple locked-winged in light cover, and CC the dog into them and allow him to see the birds walking around. It might get him fired up to see them. I wouldn't mind if my dog grabbed one, but other people don't do that, so you'll have to decide. The idea is to give the dog power over the bird. IMO, blinking is a bigger harder thing to fix than grabbing birds, so there you are. So basically you're taking him back to little puppy stuff and bringing him along past where he quit on you.
Once he's OK with those birds, plant in heavier cover that requires scent pointing, and move forward from there, subbing in quail at some point. If he regresses on the quail, try going back to letting him see a couple.
Don't worry about correcting him for not being steady, and keep yourself quiet, as in silent, when you're doing bird work. No pressure from you is key. After the flush you can praise him.
You're going to have to work on that recall PDQ also. Until he is reliable at a distance, only let him loose in a safe place. At 18 months dogs can be pretty much boneheaded about doing what they want, when they want, so don't trust him around roads. If you have access to someone with an ecollar and experience using it, that would be your most surefire solution to the recall problem IMO. In the meantime do everything you can to bond with your new dog, and make him think the sun rises and sets on you, his best buddy.
Good advice above, if you can contact Mr. Lindley. Sometimes a few hours with a great trainer will save you a ton of stress and work, if you can't leave the dog for training.
Good luck, I hope you can turn things around real well.
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
Excellent suggestion and even if you didn't want to leave the dog I am sure if he sees the dog he would try to advise you what needs doing. He is one of the very best.MillerClemsonHD wrote:Without being able to see the dog and most people will not have the experience necessary to really answer your question and give you a good plan forward. My suggestion would be to contact Maurice Lindley He is only a couple hours from you and I have personally watched him fix many dogs that were brought to him with issues. To me you would be way ahead to contact him and have him work the dog for a month or two (depending what it takes) and get it where it needs to be for you to continue on the training. This would be money well spent and you are out about the cost of a puppy and a solid foundation to start with.
Here is the link to his kennel.
http://lindleykennel.com/
Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207
It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207
It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
I do not know Mr. Lindley personally, but he comes highly recommended by many that I trust. He has an excellent reputation. You need to go see him.
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
Thank you all! I'll look at Mr. Lindley's link and will likely reach out to him. As the saying goes, "a man's got to know his limitations..."
I'm no trainer by any means. I'm trying to absorb what I can, and any "local" trainer recommendations was going to be a follow up question. I'd love to have some professional help.
Thanks again for the advice/thoughts. I'm continuing to work on the recall and building our bond together, and have NO plans of releasing him to run free again anytime soon...my plan has been to work into the e-collar with him, as responsibly as possible, and under some supervision, to make sure he (and I) is properly introduced to it for training.
I'm no trainer by any means. I'm trying to absorb what I can, and any "local" trainer recommendations was going to be a follow up question. I'd love to have some professional help.
Thanks again for the advice/thoughts. I'm continuing to work on the recall and building our bond together, and have NO plans of releasing him to run free again anytime soon...my plan has been to work into the e-collar with him, as responsibly as possible, and under some supervision, to make sure he (and I) is properly introduced to it for training.
- AZ Brittany Guy
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1417
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:00 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
Good advice.. I would also add that if "you" can spend a few days with Mo, it will help you emensley.MillerClemsonHD wrote:Without being able to see the dog and most people will not have the experience necessary to really answer your question and give you a good plan forward. My suggestion would be to contact Maurice Lindley He is only a couple hours from you and I have personally watched him fix many dogs that were brought to him with issues. To me you would be way ahead to contact him and have him work the dog for a month or two (depending what it takes) and get it where it needs to be for you to continue on the training. This would be money well spent and you are out about the cost of a puppy and a solid foundation to start with.
Here is the link to his kennel.
http://lindleykennel.com/
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
Thanks AZ...I was hoping to find a trainer close by so I could be sure and be part of the process, to the extent it would be beneficial, so that works out really well!
I've emailed Mr. Lindley on his website, and we'll see what his availability is!
I've emailed Mr. Lindley on his website, and we'll see what his availability is!
- AZ Brittany Guy
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1417
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:00 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
I whish you the best.Spoon wrote:Thanks AZ...I was hoping to find a trainer close by so I could be sure and be part of the process, to the extent it would be beneficial, so that works out really well!
I've emailed Mr. Lindley on his website, and we'll see what his availability is!
- tailcrackin
- Rank: 2X Champion
- Posts: 422
- Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:38 pm
- Location: Crab Orchard, Kentucky
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
Maurice is a good one. He will help you learn, if you want to. You can also go to Facebook, and friend him. We have a very nice group of trainers/hunters/field trailers on there. They all train, with the method, he will use on your dog. Maurice and I also do a seminar at Martha Greenlee's kennel in early April. Piney Run Kennel, its agreat time, with a lot of really good people. Its 3 days, with the first day and half, learning the basics. The next day and half, is helping understand the finishing work, with the job we taught. Lion Country has a book called "Training With Mo". It is a very good read, that will help give you a better idea on how we do things. Working on a part two book, but its not out yet. Thanks Jonesy
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- Rank: 2X Champion
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- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:10 pm
- Location: jellico tn
Re: Training ???s For a New/Older Pup...(and a New Trainer)
you said your not sure what to do and your looking for some advise go to the trainer he can watch your dog in the field and can give you better advise seeing the dog up close i dont think you have to big of a prob.sounds like the dog is just not sure what to do but not seeing the dog thats just my op.