Retriever trial in Britain

[Trekmoor]

I thought some of you might like to see a retrieve done by an excellent lab in a British trial.

Video taken at last weeks IGL at Queensberry Estate Dumfries with John Halsted handling Ftch Emmanygan Ramble

http://youtu.be/c3gcw_p_Sf4

Bill T.

[slistoe]

Was this a bird the dog saw fall or a blind retrieve? It looked like a blind to me. I assume the handler was giving hand signals for directing the dog.

[Trekmoor]

I wasn't there, I'd never have managed the walking in those hills but I'm pretty sure it was a blind retrieve. If it had been a marked retrieve the dog wouldn't have checked on blue hare or maybe gamebird scents on the way out ?

I think that dog was awarded a Diploma of Merit , which means that it wasn't 1st. , 2nd or 3rd. To my eye that hillside would have been awkward to handle a dog up and along . I suspect the lie of the ground took the dog out of the handlers view at times ?

Bill T.

[slistoe]

Would all of the dogs had to make the same retrieve?

[crackerd]

Would all of the dogs had to make the same retrieve?

Scott, prepare to be eyewiped over that question

And whatever you do, do not ask if any dogs came close to drowning - or swimming - during the making of this trial...

MG

[polmaise]

The retrieve was on a Partridge that had been hit but not dropped from the sky and soared some distance along the hill. There was a 'Tail wind' which helped ...There was also a lone tree in that bracken/heather cover which also helped as a mark for the handler not the dog! The stops en route were handler stop whistle and at that distance (the tail wind helped with the dog hearing it)
The Topography did not help as the slope and undulating ground were factors for the dog and handler .
A very nice and typical retrieve asked at FTCH level,and well executed.

[slistoe]

The retrieve was on a Partridge that had been hit but not dropped from the sky and soared some distance along the hill. There was a 'Tail wind' which helped ...There was also a lone tree in that bracken/heather cover which also helped as a mark for the handler not the dog! The stops en route were handler stop whistle and at that distance (the tail wind helped with the dog hearing it)
The Topography did not help as the slope and undulating ground were factors for the dog and handler .
A very nice and typical retrieve asked at FTCH level,and well executed.

So presumably this was a marked retrieve as the dog would have watched the flight and fall? And no one will ever know if the winning dogs would or could have made the retrieve will they. What kind of distance are we talking here? Didn't seem like 350+ yards. It certainly was a good retrieve on some difficult terrain and showcases the usefulness of a retriever that handles at a distance.

[Trekmoor]

Would all of the dogs had to make the same retrieve?

In our trials birds are never "released" to be shot, never thrown into the air. That is illegal in Britain. Birds are released from pens several months ahead of the trial(s) and although good keepering will help to hold them in certain areas , many of the birds will spread out, they will stray.

Retriever trials are usually "walked up" affairs with a drive given if possible. The guns, the handlers, the gamekeeper, the judges, the game carriers etc. all walk in line o'er hill and dale in a "line abreast" fashion that can be well over 100 yards in length. They flush game with their feet as they walk , game can be feather or fur, the game is fired at and the whole line stops walking while a dog is sent to make the retrieve in a fairly strict order. A dog is often sent right along the "line" from one end to the other to collect a bird that has fallen just a few yards from a competing dog at the far end of the line.

This is stressfull ....to put it mildly .....to the dog the bird may have fallen near to and it may whine (instant elimination) or it may run in (instant elimination.) Even if that dog appears to be "unduly restive" as the other dog retrieves from close to it , that dog will be likely to be marked down.
I was in a run-off for 1st place in one Open retriever trial but the other competitor won the run-off. His dog had not been as agitated while walking to heel , my bitch was looking a bit twitchy ! It can be as close as that when it comes to winning or losing. If the judges cannot separate the dogs on their retrieving then their heelwork will come into consideration.

It is not possible to give the same retrieve to every dog in a British trial , not for any of the gundog breeds. Every retrieve is different in some way just as it would be during a day out shooting for fun. The handlers, the dogs and the judges just have to deal with that.

Water is used in our retriever trials......if possible. Sometimes drives are arranged in such a way as to have birds fall into or over rivers but more usually ponds , lakes, lochs. If a bird should fall into water during a trial a dog will be sent for it as a marked retrieve or as a blind but I have only once been required to send a lab over a river in a trial......I got chucked out of the other trial before we reached the loch !

Bill T.

[Trekmoor]

I do not think the retrieve shown in the film was a marked retrieve, not for the dog anyway. It is quite possible that the handler did not see the bird fall either. Sometimes not even a judge has seen a bird fall and the gun that shot it will be asked where it fell. The gun tells the judges and the judges tell the handler where to send the dog but very often the judges give only an approximate mark just in case the gun can't mark to save himself !

There is no way of knowing if another competing dog would have made a better or a worse job of that retrieve, once it has been picked that is the end of it. If the first dog tried had failed the retrieve then another dog or maybe several dogs in a row would be sent to make the "eyewipe." If all the dogs failed to find a bird that was definetely seen to fall then the judges would be required to go out there to look for it probably accompanied by the gun that shot it. I'd bet the judges were praying that bird would be found by a dog and save them hiking up that hill !

If the judges found the bird then all of the dogs that had been tried on it would be eliminated. If the judges failed to find the bird then the first dog tried would be eliminated. The other dogs tried would be excused on the grounds of "time between fall and send." Very occasionally the first dog tried is also let off the hook if the time interval between the bird falling and the dog being sent is felt to have been very long if the bird was clearly a runner.

That is a very "potted" version of a retriever trial but my typing finger is getting sore !

Bill T.

[polmaise]

The retrieve was on a Partridge that had been hit but not dropped from the sky and soared some distance along the hill. There was a 'Tail wind' which helped ...There was also a lone tree in that bracken/heather cover which also helped as a mark for the handler not the dog! The stops en route were handler stop whistle and at that distance (the tail wind helped with the dog hearing it)
The Topography did not help as the slope and undulating ground were factors for the dog and handler .
A very nice and typical retrieve asked at FTCH level,and well executed.

So presumably this was a marked retrieve as the dog would have watched the flight and fall? And no one will ever know if the winning dogs would or could have made the retrieve will they. What kind of distance are we talking here? Didn't seem like 350+ yards. It certainly was a good retrieve on some difficult terrain and showcases the usefulness of a retriever that handles at a distance.

Whilst I can appreciate that if one had never been in a situation where multiple dogs and handlers in a line and multiple birds flying and multiple shots going off at the same time the distance in many cases is of little relevance. In this case the dog did not see where the bird landed ,one of the guns who shot at it reported to the judges that he seen it land. I agree it was more like 250 yards.Never the less It was good solid handling on scented ground which may or may not have live game en route

[slistoe]

Whilst I can appreciate that if one had never been in a situation where multiple dogs and handlers in a line and multiple birds flying and multiple shots going off at the same time the distance in many cases is of little relevance. In this case the dog did not see where the bird landed ,one of the guns who shot at it reported to the judges that he seen it land. I agree it was more like 250 yards.Never the less It was good solid handling on scented ground which may or may not have live game en route

There can be lots of factors that affect the ability of a dog to mark a bird - that's why I asked.
Yes, it was a good example of how useful a well trained handling dog can be.

[polmaise]

There can be lots of factors that affect the ability of a dog to mark a bird - that's why I asked.
Yes, it was a good example of how useful a well trained handling dog can be.

True ! But this was a 'Blind'

[gundogguy]

Bill Thanks for sharing, really brought back some fond memories of times in the UK meeting dog folks and running dogs there. Very solid retriever work as well.

Hal