Labrador training

[JBrassie12]

I have a 9 month old yellow lab this is y first hunting dog I have trained and I have been hitting obedience hard and he works great on a leash and is perfect obedience in the yard but as soon as we go to the pond out back or into the pasture all obedience goes out the window and he won't listen for anything or even retrieve his toys just playing not even working. I don't know how to keep him from running circles around the edge of the pond and running away from me and listen to what I am saying. I use a E-collor and in the back yard he knows exactly what to do sit, heel, here are all perfect as well and being steady until I send him on a retrieve then he gets distracted super easy. i don't know what to do to help both of us. :roll:

[CDN_Cocker]

There's something you're not disclosing here... Are you going to the pond to hunt? if you can make him 100% in the yard, he can be 100% at the pond. You need to train there - not just go and hunt and expect the same reliability as in training. Hunting should be an extension of training.

[JBrassie12]

No hunting just for him to play and train but he doesn't like to listen when we are there he just runs back and forth at the edge in the water

[gonehuntin']

When you train a lab with an ecollar, there is a total program involve do; I think Evan Grahams Smart Fetct series is the best. If he were trained on the collar, he would be fully obedience trained, force fetched ab
Nd forced back with collar. Had you instilled all of these disciplines, you would not be having a problem.

[mnaj_springer]

Dogs are place oriented. You need to train at the pond like you did in the yard. So if you started with a leash or check cord in the yard, use that at the pond. I'm with Cass though... feels like there is a piece of the puzzle we're missing. Maybe you don't even realize, but idk. I have a feeling that you're acting differently at the pond... Think about it.

[whoadog]

Is your e-collar functioning properly? If he knows the command at home, you should be able to transition fairly easily in the field with a "reminder" from the collar. Have you checked your dogs ears? I had a lab with eye problems and that did not show up in the yard but was noticeable on long marks in the field. Finally, you say he just runs back and forth at the edge of the water.

[gonehuntin']

Running forth at waters edge is a water avoidance problem and is cured with water force in all good retriever programs.

[crackerd]

Regardless whether the e-collar's "functioning properly," the OP obviously is working with it improperly on a retriever. To wit, GH's post. Any retriever or retrieving gundog that "gets distracted" on a simple retrieve has gotten misguided training delivered via the e-collar. Latch onto a retriever training program and start over.

MG

[whoadog]

Running forth at waters edge is a water avoidance problem and is cured with water force in all good retriever programs.

Probably so, but the op doesn't say there is anything in the water for him to retrieve. My visla absolutely loves playing in the water. She will run in the edge splashing water up and trying to catch it. So, maybe it is avoidance, maybe not.

Regardless whether the e-collar's "functioning properly," the OP obviously is working with it improperly on a retriever.

I agree completely. But, just perhaps the improper use is a poorly functioning collar. I have seen new trainers Under-buy when it comes to collars which, in my opinion, is worse than no collar at all.

On this forum, so often we jump to conclusions about a poster's training acumen and fail to address simpler things. I am only trying to suggest things to eliminate before changing the training the op has been doing in the yard. If the collar checks out as does the dog's hearing, then, of course, other suggestions become more pertinent.

[gonehuntin']

WE are given very poor and incomplete information on this dog. No matter what the problem is, and it really doesn't matter, an organized retriever program will correct any problem mentioned, real or perceived .

[polmaise]

I have a 9 month old yellow lab this is y first hunting dog I have trained and I have been hitting obedience hard and he works great on a leash and is perfect obedience in the yard but as soon as we go to the pond out back or into the pasture all obedience goes out the window and he won't listen for anything or even retrieve his toys just playing not even working. I don't know how to keep him from running circles around the edge of the pond and running away from me and listen to what I am saying. I use a E-collor and in the back yard he knows exactly what to do sit, heel, here are all perfect as well and being steady until I send him on a retrieve then he gets distracted super easy. i don't know what to do to help both of us. :roll:

Start with a Long line when you go to the pond or the pasture accomplish the obedience in that environment before overlaying with the collar.

[tailcrackin]

When you are changing areas, you are "in dogs mind" allowing a rule change. Man, its not got a thing to do with the ecollar work, its the teaching work. Back step just a little, and work the dog in a piece of the pasture, and then as dog gets back into the swing with the change, work down to the pond. Put, and keep the check cord on it, for a while, and show it what you want. Ecollar is an extension of the check cord........in a change of areas, dog gets wild acting, use the cord, to keep it calmer. It will avoid, out run, play the ecollar stimulation........its not gonna get away from the cord. start small, and work into big. The water work, with out seeing the dog, sound tom like it could also, be avoiding the water. Hard to say. You do what you want, if the dog folds up on him, from all the knocking n shocking, you all need to figure out how to advise him, to fix it. Could be a hard fix, could be why the dogs circling him so much to. Only an opinion, Thanks Jonesy

[crackerd]

Appreciate the pointing dog perspective and insights on situational awareness, but almost none of it applies for training a retriever as a retriever. The good news for the OP is that a note just now from Polmaise on another matter triggered a recommendation for what GH advises - a formal program to put the pup through. That would be found in a book by Cherylon Loveland, considered one of the best retriever trainers in the country, that spells out everything sequentially: "Retriever Puppy Training: The Right Start for Hunting." You can find it here http://www.gundogsupply.com/bkk-0523.html

MG

[Meller]

crackerd, Jonesy also works with a lot of retrievers, in fact I believe he owns a pretty fine lab, so would not only be from a pointing dog perspective in my opinon.

[gonehuntin']

You are correct Meller, Jonesy trains and occasionally sells some retrievers. He trains them all, same as I did.

[crackerd]

And trains (and occasionally sells) retrievers for what kind of work and competition? Know your resume, GH, and Polmaise has similar credentials on his side of the pond for taking on all gundogs. But if you're training retrievers as retrievers here - as waterdogs, nonslip, and for handling on blinds especially through the H20 - you best have a program for following, pro or amateur alike.

MG

[Meller]

Not going to argue with who is the best, there are several retriever trainers that are good trainers out there, but I real sure he was not training the lab to point as it is used to retrieve ducks and geese which require water; and I have heard him talk of Bill Hillman which is I don't think is a pointing dog trainer. I'm sure there are other influences to his ability to train retrievers just never asked. So I'm done have a good day!

[gonehuntin']

And trains (and occasionally sells) retrievers for what kind of work and competition? Know your resume, GH, and Polmaise has similar credentials on his side of the pond for taking on all gundogs. But if you're training retrievers as retrievers here - as waterdogs, nonslip, and for handling on blinds especially through the H20 - you best have a program for following, pro or amateur alike.

MG

Now, now, MG, you know that Jonesy follows a program. When I was training, EVERY dog went through the same basic program until they went to the field, then they differed. Fact is, every pointing dog, spaniel, and retriever went through the identical obedience and FF program including force to pile. The Pointing dog's were taught WHOA not sit, but if the owner desired, they were also taught to lay at a blind. In California, a lot of pointing dogs (GSP's mainly) are also used or duck in the rice.

Jonesy may not be the best communicator on these boards but he is one heck of a dog trainer. I'd send a dog to him anytime for gun dog work.

[tailcrackin]

Whew, dog work, is dog work. You adjust to help every breed. You, sometimes have to let common sense over weigh the program a little.....to work threw the speed bump. Then, help the dog threw, and soon, you'll be back in swing of things.
Start small and build to go big. If your dog is showing confusion. Don't be to big in your own mind, to help it. Like I had said in my first post, "don't make it happen, get it ready, and let it happen. Now, that quote came from Ray Hunt, a horse man. It's a good common sense way of thinking.
Bill Hillman has some really good videos. You can also watch his Rex Carr 2 part tribute. It's really a good watch n listen.
Thanks Mellar, and Ken, you all have a Merry Christmas, thanks Jonesy

[gonehuntin']

Jonesy, far to many specialize today and have gotten away from old time dog training. When I was a pup and working at a large kennel, a guy brought a half breed in for training. I commented to the owner that the dog was probably a piece of s#@t and the guy was throwing his money away. My boss wheeled around, stared at me and said "You're a dog trainer. You train what you're given. That's why they pay you." I've never forgotten that and learned more from him that at any other time in my life because we always took the good with the bad. We were trainers and trained them all. For my money, there seems to be to much specialization in dog training today.

[ezzy333]

Jonesy, far to many specialize today and have gotten away from old time dog training. When I was a pup and working at a large kennel, a guy brought a half breed in for training. I commented to the owner that the dog was probably a piece of s#@t and the guy was throwing his money away. My boss wheeled around, stared at me and said "You're a dog trainer. You train what you're given. That's why they pay you." I've never forgotten that and learned more from him that at any other time in my life because we always took the good with the bad. We were trainers and trained them all. For my money, there seems to be to much specialization in dog training today.

It has always bothered me when someone thinks there is only one way to train a dog(AND IT IS ALWAYS HIS WAY). A trainer is a trainer, by definition he trains anything to the satisfaction of the owner. It doesn't always work out as we all know but I do feel sorry for the individual who hasn't learned that. Just look around at all of the different trainers, different programs, and different dogs and explain how they are all identical and teach and learn in the same manner. Just doesn't make sense to me at least but it does seem that it has become much more that way in recent years. I think it goes back to the instant success syndrome where everyone wants the trainer that was successful this year, the breed of dog that won this year, and they should be trained in the same way as the winner was this year. And all the time knowing it changes every year.

We all need to relax a little and be happy with what you have and improve it if necessary but do it the way that works for you as there is no one right way.