Range question

[Bacon1676]

I'm a novice, but I think I know the answer to this question. Just want to hear what everyone else has to say. I've never hunted with a dog that hunted more than a hundred yards out. So, I'm curious as to what are the advantages of a dog hunting out 200-400 yards out?

[RayGubernat]

The answer to this is an easy one.

First we need to remember ...The dog is the one with the nose. The dog is the one that can and will find game. We are there to shoot what the dog finds.

If the dog hunts the territory 200-400 yards out in front of you, it is very likely hunting the territory 100-200 yards (or more) to either side of you. If the dog hunts 100 yards in front of you, it is likely covering only about one fourth of the territory of the 200 yard dog and about one eighth of the territory covered by the 400 yard dog.

That is a whole lot of territory that the dog is covering, looking for game... AND a whole lot of places you DON'T have to walk to because the dog has already checked them out and moved on.

RayG

[cjhills]

On commonly hunted birds, such as pheasants, rough grouse, sharptails and huns we shoot more birds over the 150 yard dogs than we do over the four hundred yard dogs. Could not say about Chukars since I have not hunted them in the wild. You still have to walk to the dog on point.. If he points 400 yards off he is standing for 15 minutes while you get there to shoot the bird. Maybe more if he is out of sight and you have to locate him. I know that is what a Garmin is for. But it still takes time. You can only handle three or four points an hour. With a dog that hunts 150 to 200 yards to the front and sides you can handle twice to three times as many points as many points in the same amount of time, walk slower and much less stress........................Cj

[bobman]

IMO it depends on where you hunt a closer working dog can be less hassle and safer in some scenarios, roads, wolves.....

[Stoneface]

It does depend and you're in Kentucky, so there can be a wide range of cover you hunt. You may be talking about quail, woodcock and grouse or may go out of state to hunt. I will tell you, most people embellish on what 400 yards looks like and if their dog his it once they have a 400-yard dog. It's not just 400 yard dogs, I'm talking about all the dogs. People are obsessed with range when all you need is enough and any more just gives you the panics if you don't have a GPS.

[SCT]

Here's a medium range for a chukar dog! How far is he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twuyZt7EOY8

[Wenaha]

I hunt mountains and prairies and in these environments the wider ranging dog finds more birds, day in and day out. If they are usually within sight and to the front I'm happy. I am getting too old or lazy to walk a dog through every ridge top, draw and thicket in the country.

I expect that, in smaller covers, a close ranging dog is not a disadvantage.

[RayGubernat]

I'm a novice, but I think I know the answer to this question. Just want to hear what everyone else has to say. I've never hunted with a dog that hunted more than a hundred yards out. So, I'm curious as to what are the advantages of a dog hunting out 200-400 yards out?

As others have pointed out, 400 yards is a looooong way. In most kinds of terrain, and in many parts of the country, that kind of range is either not practical or even possible.

Heck... 100 yards in thick cover is a pretty long way if you have to fight your way to the dog. Crawling over, under and around blowdowns or though briars to get to a point gets real old...real fast.

A dog that covers a great deal of real estate is a huge asset in open country with sparse cover and widely spaced "birdy " areas. If the bird populations are more concentrated, such as abandoned orchards in areas of mature woods, or on a preserve, that extended range is no particular advantage to the hunter and can be a disadvantage.

The trick, in my opinion, is to have a dog that CAN stretch out to the maximum "huntable" distance when the cover permits, but develop in that dog the understanding and the cooperativeness to want to suck it in to a more modest distance when the cover thickens or when hunting in a defined area. The "best" range at which a dog "hunts to the gun" is almost infinitely variable and depends on a whole host of things. If the dog is capable of operating effectively at any of those ranges and has the intelligence and biddability to modify its hunting pattern... you got yourself a BIRDDOG.

RayG

[Big bloc]

What Ray said. Here where I live CRP can be 3 to 4 ft tall. At 400 yards I would be dead by the time I got there. My rule of thumb is If I cant see my dog that is too far. Good luck

[Gordon Guy]

Since you wanted to know what others thought....I think It's really a personal preference, determined by your objectives and individual tolerance for control, or lack there of... A big running dog is an acquired taste.

Where I hunt one can walk a long way before getting into birds. Advantages: It's good to have a dog that with hunt places that I wouldn't have walked to.

[polmaise]

The answer to this is an easy one.

First we need to remember ...The dog is the one with the nose. The dog is the one that can and will find game. We are there to shoot what the dog find

RayG

And it can be right in front of you or just to the side of you
The cover and terrain will govern this , but the 'Guvner' Is the dog

[Sharon]

LOL Reading all these post makes the hunters sound pretty unfit. or old.

You need a dog that will range enough to do the job in your situation. No big prairies here in ON, but if I lived in Saskatchewan ..........

[polmaise]

Lol Reading all these posts makes me wonder who hunts and whom actually hunts . But it does depend on where one hunts and what cover is hunted .

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Interesting responses.

[Bacon1676]

Enjoying reading your guys responses. I think you guys are right when you say that it depends on the terrain. In Kentucky there isn't a lot of open hunting areas. Nothing even close to what the guys in Arizona and similar states have to hunt in. Your lucky if you come across a 100 acre squared plot without running into a tree line. The further west you go the more open the land gets, but it is still pretty wooded.

[Bacon1676]

Here's a medium range for a chukar dog! How far is he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twuyZt7EOY8

Hard to tell on a video, but I would say from what I know a dog to look like at 100 yards out I would say that he/she is about 200 yards out.

[RayGubernat]

The answer to this is an easy one.

First we need to remember ...The dog is the one with the nose. The dog is the one that can and will find game. We are there to shoot what the dog find

RayG

And it can be right in front of you or just to the side of you
The cover and terrain will govern this , but the 'Guvner' Is the dog

Yes they most certainly can be just in front or just to the side...sometimes. Sometimes not. As you say, it depends on the cover and the terrain.

All I know is if I walk into the short side of a twenty to forty acre agricultural field that is bordered by gnarly , nasty bottoms on the two long sides and back, I want a dog that will buzz down one long side,, around the back and up the other side, back to me. That beats the snot out of my having to climb a four strand barbed wire fence(and probably break the wire loose or catch my hunting pants...or both) and walk three quarters of the way down and then back through the middle of the bare field...but that is just me. Not to mention that a good dog can probably do the circuit in about ten minutes while I stand and watch. To walk it down and back would probably take the best part of a half hour. I could have done a whole 'nother field in that time and maybe be working on a third. If there is no covey there...you move on. If there is, the dog points and you happily take the walk.

If the dog has the ability to do that...when necessary... that can be a huge advantage in the right terrain. But, if that is all the dog knows how to do, that is not so good either.

RayG

[Vision]

Here's a medium range for a chukar dog! How far is he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twuyZt7EOY8

200-250?


This gets problematic in chucker country

[tailcrackin]

Every dog, has a comfort range. Every dog is different, so is comfort range. Expect that.
The thing that I would focus on, is the rest of the dog. Is the dog running that big, to get away from you, or be an outlaw? Or, is it really hunting when running? OR, even, is it honestly finding that much, when running that big? Most dogs that have a smart sense about them, will adjust to the cover. The main stream of the brain, is having the steady work done, so when it does find game, at a big distance, it has the smarts, to stand still, and stay calm, and not push the game, before you get there. A good question, IMO, is what is the dog doing, when, and in between, getting there? Self hunters, and outlaws, run offs, aren't feeding you. Actually, they aren't doing much, but letting the wind whistle between their ears, while running. You are the farthest thing from their mind. But, that's only an opinion. Thanks Jonesy

[Wenaha]

And it can be right in front of you or just to the side of you
The cover and terrain will govern this , but the 'Guvner' Is the dog

When you're hunting behind a wide ranging dog, the ground you're standing on has already been hunted by the dog. Any decent quality bird dog is checking wind direction, looking over the terrain, and choosing his likely objectives. When released, he will hunt to those objectives and use the wind and terrain to his advantage.

One of the things that most spooks birds is a large upright creatures carrying a gun. They can usually escape four-footed predators - including dogs and coyotes. So a dog alone has an easier time pointing and handling birds than the dog closely accompanied by a hunter.

[polmaise]

And it can be right in front of you or just to the side of you
The cover and terrain will govern this , but the 'Guvner' Is the dog

When you're hunting behind a wide ranging dog, the ground you're standing on has already been hunted by the dog. Any decent quality bird dog is checking wind direction, looking over the terrain, and choosing his likely objectives. When released, he will hunt to those objectives and use the wind and terrain to his advantage.

One of the things that most spooks birds is a large upright creatures carrying a gun. They can usually escape four-footed predators - including dogs and coyotes. So a dog alone has an easier time pointing and handling birds than the dog closely accompanied by a hunter.

Good call ! ..?
The ground to the left of the hunter has not been hunted by the dog if it's cast in to a wind that is coming from the right , Kemo Sabe !
One of the defences of some game is to 'freeze' - Or we say 'Clap' . Some smart critters have 'BIG' runners chasing the wind

[bonasa]

I hunt a lot of ruffed grouse and woodcock in New England as well as South Carolina. Mostly I hunt from the road on foot or idling from a truck and have the dog hunt the cover, depending on stem density , bird population , terrain and past experience this can bring the dogs anywhere from 50-300 yards away from me. I break all my dogs to the kills and they stop to flush. I do find it a benefit to have the range and a broke dog for an enjoyable gunning experience. Many times I have had to walk the 200+ yards to release a dog from a stop to flush and have more birds from the brood or flight take off on my approach.Without range and training these finds wouldn't be shootable. Many days when the scenting conditions are optimal we have gone point to point to point on birds. Just me though...

[SCT]

Here's a medium range for a chukar dog! How far is he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twuyZt7EOY8

200-250?


This gets problematic in chucker country

In my video the ridge was about 300 yards. Got a video of him hunting more than twice that far but it reveals too much.

Yes, 1.02 miles can be fun especially in chukar hills. Of course they are probably on your side of the mountain if you're getting a reading from the Garmin.

Some people just can't stomach a dog with huge range, but if they're handling for you, it's a great experience.

[oldbeek]

My dog runs really big in open country. Once she finds a covey she is almost to slow and close, but she has the nose. At just a little over 2, she has learned to seek objectives and use the wind direction. Five times this year, she has found birds where she knows I will not be able to see her while running big. She stops and looks back as to say come on they are just ahead. Once on the edge of thick brush and once just as she was going to crest a hill. At 16 weeks she ranged out to 1/4 mile in open country hitting all the objectives. I just let her run as my heart was pounding she came right back to me. From then on she was in charge of range.

[setterpoint]

some prefer big running dogs me im 62 years old i take my time hunting an i like a dog thats close as long as hes bis.i hunt grouse in michigan and get a lot of points with a close dog but there is no right or wrong hear it what you like. if i were quail hunting in texas or wide open country i think i would like a dog thats got some range to it

[mrgordonscott]

There is no wrong range. The bigger you let your dog run the more likely the dog will find an additional bird, however at some point your no longer handling the dog. A dog can't hear a whistle or command when they are a mile out. I think some folks just like to see their dog go on point and hold for long periods of time. Since you are a novice it's totally fine to keep your dog in and watch it work. We are all in it for the dogs, and I think all of us could watch a dog work all day long and never get bored of it.

How old is your dog and about how far out are you letting it work?

[Bacon1676]

There is no wrong range. The bigger you let your dog run the more likely the dog will find an additional bird, however at some point your no longer handling the dog. A dog can't hear a whistle or command when they are a mile out. I think some folks just like to see their dog go on point and hold for long periods of time. Since you are a novice it's totally fine to keep your dog in and watch it work. We are all in it for the dogs, and I think all of us could watch a dog work all day long and never get bored of it.

How old is your dog and about how far out are you letting it work?

He is 8 months. Right now I let him go out has far as he can. Not the most secure dog at this point so I'm doing my best to let him build that confidence. If I had to put a number on it I would say 75-100 yards, maybe. Don't really have the area to really let him go without him going on to someone else's property. My cousin has about 50-75 acres I use every once in a while, but it's a little bit of a drive for me so I don't get out there as much as I would like.