Huntsmith vs. Training with Mo

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love2hunt
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Huntsmith vs. Training with Mo

Post by love2hunt » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:24 pm

I've been debating this in my head all weekend and would love some input to settle it. Of those who have used and applied both methods, which works best for you: Huntsmith Silent Command System, or the West/Gibbons Method as refined in Training with Mo? I see advantages to both, but I am torn between the two and don't feel experienced enough to modify them to suit my own needs.

A huge limitation for me with the Training with Mo method is my ability to get the right bird contacts. I struggle to plant them, I've got too many trees to card them, and I would love to avoid the cost of a launcher. It seems that the SCS would allow me more control of my dog since I'm having trouble controlling the birds. What say you?
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Sharon
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Re: Huntsmith vs. Training with Mo

Post by Sharon » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:19 pm

Both are good training programmes. Bird exposure is crucial in both programmes. Only lots of birds will make a bird dog. A launcher makes using pen raised birds so much easier and more effective- worth every penny.

from Huntsmith Foundation level one:

"The Foundation Level is taught during the first month of the Basic Formal Training Class. During this month dogs get to work multiple birds every day, retrieve birds, and get used to being in the field. By using the mechanical cues of checkcords, whoa posts and command leads we are able to teach fundamental behaviors to the dogs.: quote
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love2hunt
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Re: Huntsmith vs. Training with Mo

Post by love2hunt » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:56 pm

Yeah, no argument there on the bird exposure. I have her on pigeons at least twice a week. In the fields as much as possible.

I just spent $800 on a new Alpha, so spending cash is a little short for a while.

The thing I have realized these last couple days is that both programs have some very similar methods. With Mo, you are using a pinch collar on the neck to teach them to stand still without a verbal command. You're essentially doing the same thing with the Huntsmith program, just on the flank.

The biggest difference for me is that, with Mo's program, you're supposed to let the dog bust the bird and then get pinched in order to teach them not to run in. Unfortunately, that only works if you've either got a launcher or very flighty birds (which he admits himself). With Huntsmith, you hold the dog still once they point on scent and keep them from busting in.

As my dog keeps working, she's figured out she can sometimes get in there on top of the bird before it flushes. Unfortunately, I helped create the problem until I realized what was happening. A launcher would probably solve that problem.
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MillerClemsonHD
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Re: Huntsmith vs. Training with Mo

Post by MillerClemsonHD » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:22 pm

Mo's method the dog learns to point the bird bc it can't catch the bird and decides it will stand its birds. The purpose here is to get the dog to stand its birds because it wants to not because it has to.

It is very easy to see the difference between the two in the dog, I see it every single time I judge a ft.

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Re: Huntsmith vs. Training with Mo

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:11 pm

I much prefer Mo's way of getting to the end but both do work.
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Sharon
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Re: Huntsmith vs. Training with Mo

Post by Sharon » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:11 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:Mo's method the dog learns to point the bird bc it can't catch the bird and decides it will stand its birds. The purpose here is to get the dog to stand its birds because it wants to not because it has to.

It is very easy to see the difference between the two in the dog, I see it every single time I judge a ft.

What shows the difference to you? The position of the handler to the dog? The amount of talking to the dog by the handler?

" learns to point the bird bc it can't catch the bird and decides it will stand its birds."quote MC

This is how I train which is why I let pup chase birds and let the birds teach the lessons.... can't be caught. Several successful trainers on here don't agree with chasing though.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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MillerClemsonHD
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Re: Huntsmith vs. Training with Mo

Post by MillerClemsonHD » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:56 pm

You can see dogs that always make mistakes if they find birds when the handler isn't close, dogs that look around on point, flag, flag early and stop when the handler gets to them, etc. The dogs body language gives it away and its easy to see. Then you have the blocking, slow or fast shooting on the flush etc.

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Re: Huntsmith vs. Training with Mo

Post by tailcrackin » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:51 pm

You get into the method, that makes sense, and works for your thoughts. If you don't understand things, the dog will have hard time also. That's because of the presentation, with any method. With Mo, method, we have a group on Facebook, that I would be happy to get you into. It is all variations of dogs, trainers, levels of training. There are a lot of great questions, answers, and good topics. Be glad to have you, so you can learn. If you'd like to talk serious about Mo, method, I would be happy to privately. Would do it public, but I don't enjoy, the trolling, and fighting about it. Dogs, and new people learning, don't deserve it. It doesn't need to try an turn into an argument, like everything else tries to. Thanks Jonesy
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