New Brittany on its way

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CT_bassman
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New Brittany on its way

Post by CT_bassman » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:53 pm

So I have a new brittany pup on its way, should be ready to pick up mid March and I have a few questions.

Let me start off by telling everyone what I am going to be looking out of my dog and what I hunt. I am from the North East and mostly hunt pheasant, grouse, and woodcock in hardwoods, pines, and some open fields but nothing too crazy big. I am looking to train a pointer obviously that will hold point on a bird even when flushed. With all the training material out there I am not sure which route to take.

I have looked into the Smith DVDs but before I drop the $160, I would like to get others opinions on other training approaches out there. Most places it seems to be the consensus to go with the smith method and use of e-collars. I am open to suggestions and am all ears.

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deseeker
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by deseeker » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:10 pm

Perfect Start/Perfect Finish is another good training video--but you will need a ton of pigeons to train with these videos. You will need a pigeon loft for returning birds or a very cheap supply of pigeons. They throw or launch a lot of birds to get the dogs to stand their birds. There are a lot of people on here that use John's videos. Good luck with your upcoming pup :D

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by setterpoint » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:10 pm

i think either one will suit you im more fam.. with perfect start set as i said on another post pick one and stick to it dont try using diff. parts of diff videos

Meller
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by Meller » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:36 pm

Might want to take a look at Maurice Lindly's book! :)

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ezzy333
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:55 pm

Meller wrote:Might want to take a look at Maurice Lindly's book! :)
Definitely the one I would work with and either Mo or Jonesy in Kentucky are great people who work the same program and are great to talk to if you need help.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by whoadog » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:39 am

What's your experience level?

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by Spotshooter » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:29 am

Congrat's, on the new pup.

I'm 5 months into my new Brittany Pup as well..

the experience question is a good one ... I had to make some adjustments to how I've handled dogs with my new Britt pup.. So knowing background, and situation will probably help folks to give constructive guidance.

CT_bassman
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by CT_bassman » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:10 am

whoadog wrote:What's your experience level?
Beginner

CT_bassman
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by CT_bassman » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:11 am

deseeker wrote:Perfect Start/Perfect Finish is another good training video--but you will need a ton of pigeons to train with these videos. You will need a pigeon loft for returning birds or a very cheap supply of pigeons. They throw or launch a lot of birds to get the dogs to stand their birds. There are a lot of people on here that use John's videos. Good luck with your upcoming pup :D
What if I dont have access to a large amount of live birds?

Meller
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by Meller » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:23 am

Maybe I missed it but where are you located (state or town and state) there may be someone close to you to give some help.

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deseeker
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by deseeker » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:54 am

CT_bassman wrote:
deseeker wrote:Perfect Start/Perfect Finish is another good training video--but you will need a ton of pigeons to train with these videos. You will need a pigeon loft for returning birds or a very cheap supply of pigeons. They throw or launch a lot of birds to get the dogs to stand their birds. There are a lot of people on here that use John's videos. Good luck with your upcoming pup :D
What if I dont have access to a large amount of live birds?
Then your best bet would be look for a NAVHDA chapter that is close to you. They have training days and people to help you with your dog. They also have birds for the training days. You also might be able to find a mentor at the NAVHDA training days that lives close to you that will have a pigeon loft for training birds that won't be shot. You might also list your town & state on here to see if there is someone on here you can train with that might have a pigeon loft. Good luck :D

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by High Voltage » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:11 pm

I second looking into NAVHDA http://www.navhda.org/
Here's the link to the chapter locator http://www.navhda.us/chaptmap.aspx
Even if the chapter isn't close to you there maybe members that are that can help you out. We have members that are 2-3 hours away that get together and train. Great way to meet like minded folks.

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by Sharon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:30 pm

CT_bassman wrote:
deseeker wrote:Perfect Start/Perfect Finish is another good training video--but you will need a ton of pigeons to train with these videos. You will need a pigeon loft for returning birds or a very cheap supply of pigeons. They throw or launch a lot of birds to get the dogs to stand their birds. There are a lot of people on here that use John's videos. Good luck with your upcoming pup :D
What if I dont have access to a large amount of live birds?
NO matter what programme you chose , access to birds is essential. I used to buy 10 pigeons a week from a local small game auction.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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pooch897
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New Brittany on its way

Post by pooch897 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:07 pm

I was in the same boat. I got my Britt in June. I was having trouble finding birds and training ground. But after just talking to everyone I could I found a kind of local club that stocks plenty of pheasants and has many experienced dog guys. I just joined at the beginning of the year and can't wait to start training and hunting there.

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Sharon
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by Sharon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:10 pm

Not to discourage your efforts , but I wouldn't start a dog on pen- raised pheasant.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by Vernal Pike » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:14 pm

Right Sharon,
Starting a pup on pheasants or even pigeons, could flap in the face and cause injury to the eye or frighten the young'un.
Traditional "Whoa" training ruined my setter after 3 months with a well respected "Pro".
So I wouldn't recommend any technique other than the Higgins method and that's what I'll recommend to this person so he doesn't make the same mistake as me.

https://vimeo.com/56924329

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ezzy333
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:46 pm

Vernal Pike wrote:Right Sharon,
Starting a pup on pheasants or even pigeons, could flap in the face and cause injury to the eye or frighten the young'un.
Traditional "Whoa" training ruined my setter after 3 months with a well respected "Pro".
So I wouldn't recommend any technique other than the Higgins method and that's what I'll recommend to this person so he doesn't make the same mistake as me.

https://vimeo.com/56924329
I am not recommending starting a pup on pheasants but every one of my pups over the past 40 years have been started on pheasant and never had a bad experience. It seems to me if a pup lets a bird beat it into submission the pup has a lot more problem than you can fix.

JMO
Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Sharon
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by Sharon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:47 pm

We're talking about different styles of training. I want a young dog to learn from the birds. If no wild birds available daily , I use hard flying pigeons. I let the dog chase until he learn he can't catch the birds . He'll then start to hesitate, creep and ..........point. At that point , no more chasing , on goes the CC. I couldn't train that way with pheasants that sit and often can be caught by an unbroken pup.
Just different ways of achieving the same goal.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by SeattlePete » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:53 pm

Sharon wrote:We're talking about different styles of training. I want a young dog to learn from the birds. If no wild birds available daily , I use hard flying pigeons. I let the dog chase until he learn he can't catch the birds . He'll then start to hesitate, creep and ..........point. At that point , no more chasing , on goes the CC. I couldn't train that way with pheasants that sit and often can be caught by an unbroken pup.
Just different ways of achieving the same goal.
So for a young pup how would use place the pigeons in the field, as I'm concerned about launchers scaring the pup. I've only worked with aN older dog where this wasn't a concern. Thanks.

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by SeattlePete » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:41 am

Sharon wrote:We're talking about different styles of training. I want a young dog to learn from the birds. If no wild birds available daily , I use hard flying pigeons. I let the dog chase until he learn he can't catch the birds . He'll then start to hesitate, creep and ..........point. At that point , no more chasing , on goes the CC. I couldn't train that way with pheasants that sit and often can be caught by an unbroken pup.
Just different ways of achieving the same goal.
So how would you place the pigeons out for a young pup? Would you keep the pup on a checkcoard? I'm concerned a launcher could be scary for the pup, but is dizzying enough to keep the pigeon in place but will flush "naturally" if the pup gets too close.
Thanks

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by cjhills » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:19 am

if you are getting a 8 or 10 week old pup in mid March you have plenty of time to find a few birds. it serves no useful purpose to have the pup on birds before 6 months old, which would be about midsummer. just train him like you would any dog. A few commands such as here, kennel, house breaking, bonding and what ever else you might like. take him on as many walks in the field as you can. let him enjoy being a puppy an learn on butterflies and "bleep" birds. n inexperienced trainer can do a lot damage with birds to early. Especially if the pup is a bit soft. Get a few quail, pull the flight feathers and let him chase them.
If the dog is bred to be a bird dog it will be there when he is old enough to understand.
I do like to take them out on wild pheasants at 6 to 8 months and let him bump and chase. I will shoot one for him if it is season or a game farm. pretty much no matter what the dog does at that time. point, bump or flush I hope he will retrieve but if not that is fine he can do nothing wrong and this is totally on his natural talent.
Be aware this post is from the forum "know it all" and free advice is worth about what you pay for it. but it works very well for me. Good Luck, relax, enjoy the the puppy days they only last for a little while. you will never ruin a dog by going to slow. But , you "bleep" sure can by going to fast.....................Cj

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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by shags » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:56 pm

^^^ That right there is a great answer ^^^

They're only little pups for a few months. Don't rush things. Have fun. Let the pup have fun.

Best of luck to you.

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Sharon
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Re: New Brittany on its way

Post by Sharon » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:15 pm

SeattlePete wrote:
Sharon wrote:We're talking about different styles of training. I want a young dog to learn from the birds. If no wild birds available daily , I use hard flying pigeons. I let the dog chase until he learn he can't catch the birds . He'll then start to hesitate, creep and ..........point. At that point , no more chasing , on goes the CC. I couldn't train that way with pheasants that sit and often can be caught by an unbroken pup.
Just different ways of achieving the same goal.
So how would you place the pigeons out for a young pup? Would you keep the pup on a checkcoard? I'm concerned a launcher could be scary for the pup, but is dizzying enough to keep the pigeon in place but will flush "naturally" if the pup gets too close.
Thanks

I'm no expert, but what I did worked fine for my dogs. When a pup I just dizzied HARD FLYING pigeons ( not kept in a small cage for a week as they lose their ability to fly hard.) Correct dizzying took some practice . You don't want the bird too dizzy. Pup would run , scare up the bird, ( at pup stage one or two caught isn't the end of the world), bird would fly off hard , pup would learn he can't catch the bird. If I had wild birds that would have been much better.

When pup started to hesitate, creep, point I switched to use the launcher and check cord . No more chasing.

This has worked fine for me , but you'll get much better advice from others.

PS As Mr Hills said so well, I didn't introduce/ start that programme until 5-6 months depending on the independence /confidence of the pup.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Brittany in the midwest now in the NE

Post by DDblindbirddog » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:24 pm

I searched the thread within the general chat forum and this was the closed I found relative to my question.

A friend just bought a 6 year old Brit that was a top dog in the midwest. The dog did a lot of hunting as a guide dog on a pheasant farm. The dog has hunted wild Sharpies and Huns - prairie birds not forest birds like ruffed grouse.

My friend went to ME and New Brunswick with the dog and he now tells me his worried.
According to my friend, all the GSP ran around like maniacs with their noses to the ground. Th Britt had a high head and was more measured in his search. I told him that was typical and that foot scent versus body scent is used by many dogs but some breeds would rather do foot scent as their primary means of searching for game. I told him many prefer body scenting breeds for partridge. All the Brits I have hunted or hunted with held their heads high.

He said his dog pointed and retrieved 3 or 4 groups and several woodcock. I said great, he is not bumping them. First time out - great. My friends said the other dogs found more birds. I told him it happens. You can't breed in luck. I told him about running some dogs together and how experience, dominance etc can effectively push a dog too far out or hold them back. I said see how the dog hunts on his own. By the way he took the Brit to a game farm and he said the dog hammered the birds, looked great.

The issues for my friend is how hard is it to get a pheasant dog to become a grouse dog. I tried to explain scent cones, degree of scent, all the stuff that has come up for me with 40+ years of training bird dogs on different types of birds. What I was hoping for is people that are trainers or have experience with going from a pheasant emphasis in the midwest to a grouse emphasis in the NE to write down their thoughts

I'll then point him to the forum so he can see what people know or have seen relative to this issue. I had a Brit who held grouse and pheasants. I think more dogs than not, figure it out based on what they are hunting, when and where.

Thanks for the thoughts

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