Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

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chrokeva
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Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by chrokeva » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:58 pm

I have a question that I feel others on here may have dealt with.
While out training a few days ago with my training group at a local California wildlife area I ran into a situation that I personally have not dealt with previously.
We had set up a course which started a ways off a dirt road, everyone other than myself was out in the field working dogs or gunning. I was waiting at the start line with my dog awaiting to work my dog on the next run when a car pulled up slowly while laying on there horn. I turned around and just stared having no idea what was going on. They then stopped the car all the while honking there horn and the passenger rolled down the window and started screaming at me in some very vulgar language adding "hunter" in her rants. I finally did get the idea of what was going on :? . I have never run into this before but at that point I realized that this is probably not that uncommon of a situation :(
With a 4 day trial coming up in the same location in the next week and the fact that my husband and I will be there all 4 days camping on the grounds I am concerned this type of situation could happen again. I was wondering if others had advice on the best way to deal with this should it occur again? I know now that it was illegal for them to do what they did now but what would be the correct thing for me to do? Would taking down there license number be enough? or would I need to video it? Would I report to police or fish and game? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Jackie

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by SwitchGrassWPG » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:20 pm

I'd start by contacting the appropriate wildlife/law enforcement officer and report the first incident. Hopefully you remember enough details about the individuals and the vehicle they were driving. For a future occurrence, do all of the above. Video for evidence, take down license plate, call the appropriate law enforcement officer to handle the problem. Once the LE officer arrives, give the information you've gathered.
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:17 pm

Ignore and then report. About the best you can do.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:19 pm

Do as suggested. Document everything with video.

Harassing hunters is illegal in most jurisdictions, and training on public lands where training is permitted should be a covered situation. I would also suggest that everyone have their hunting license and any required permits on their person.

Keep your cool and let the conservation officers handle it.

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chrokeva
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by chrokeva » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:05 pm

Unfortunately I really do not remember much about the vehicle (other than it was a newer type car) because I really did not understand what was happening at first and I did not understand the law at that point. Next time I will be much more aware.
Staying calm and letting officers handle this is very good advice since I have to admit my hackles went up when I realized what was going on.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by CDN_Cocker » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:08 pm

There are hippie tree huggers everywhere. Just don't lose your cool. They operate on the ignorance is bliss motto.
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by jczv » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:05 pm

SwitchGrassWPG wrote:I'd start by contacting the appropriate wildlife/law enforcement officer and report the first incident. Hopefully you remember enough details about the individuals and the vehicle they were driving. For a future occurrence, do all of the above. Video for evidence, take down license plate, call the appropriate law enforcement officer to handle the problem. Once the LE officer arrives, give the information you've gathered.
The above + and the last comment + make sure that you do nothing that could be perceived as a threat in response. So try to keep any hard asses or hotheads away from the situation. All you need is them recording somebody from your party being threatening. I've been involved in everything from harassment while hunting, to hikers walking through a middle of a trial, guys demanding to train 'because it's public land' during a trial and teenagers repeatedly walking through a bird field while training. Years ago lost my cool once - that didn't help at all that's what they want.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by Spotshooter » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:37 pm

Video from your phone, walk up to the plate, and the people so you get their faces.

Ask them to leave you alone while your doing it, and turn the video into the cops.. And ask that they press charges.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by Vision » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:50 pm

Move out of California as fast as you can. :D

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by gundogguy » Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:30 am

chrokeva welcome to the world of Politically correct politics. When you started with your pup you never in a million years thought that some folks would not appreciate what you were doing. You need to check your regulations on hunting and dog training in Califoriastan. Here in Michigan there are laws on the books that protect hunters and trainers from harassment, as long as those activities are during certain periods of times of the year. if you are on public land. Here in the east I cannot think of any group spaniel training or trials that take place on public land. Private land assures one,at this time, harassment free activity. Of course the good thing about spaniel training on any scale is that it is usually a well armed event with lots of ammunition. and like I have contended for years, I carry, because a policeman is just to heavy!
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by NEhomer » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:43 am

You should have asked them if they're pro abortion. :?

...I too would photograph them and their vehicle.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by art hubbard » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:12 am

Where in California did this happen ? I have a boy in CA. I would like to make him aware of this crap. He also trains dogs on a public training ground.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:16 am

One other thing I thought of...

You and every member of your training group should have the phone number for the area wildlife management office and/or the emergency number for the area conservation office on your phone's speed dial. The INSTANT someone shows up and starts any harassing behavior, call it in.


Then proceed to videotape, photograph and whatever.

I would be VERY obvious about photographing the persons and their vehicle's license tag.

Say NOTHING...do NOTHING aggressive, but make sure they understand that you have their faces and identification.

If they attempt to leave, do not impede their egress, but if they make any ruts or otherwise damage the grounds...record that as well for the authorities.

I too would follow up with the division to see if the perpetrators have been identified and when the charges will be filed.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by cjhills » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:19 am

gundogguy wrote:chrokeva welcome to the world of Politically correct politics. When you started with your pup you never in a million years thought that some folks would not appreciate what you were doing. You need to check your regulations on hunting and dog training in Califoriastan. Here in Michigan there are laws on the books that protect hunters and trainers from harassment, as long as those activities are during certain periods of times of the year. if you are on public land. Here in the east I cannot think of any group spaniel training or trials that take place on public land. Private land assures one,at this time, harassment free activity. Of course the good thing about spaniel training on any scale is that it is usually a well armed event with lots of ammunition. and like I have contended for years, I carry, because a policeman is just to heavy!
That is the attitude that will get everybody in trouble........Cj

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by chrokeva » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:53 am

art hubbard wrote:Where in California did this happen ? I have a boy in CA. I would like to make him aware of this crap. He also trains dogs on a public training ground.
This happened at Grizzly Island Wildlife Preserve in Suisun, Ca

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by chrokeva » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:56 am

gundogguy wrote:chrokeva welcome to the world of Politically correct politics. When you started with your pup you never in a million years thought that some folks would not appreciate what you were doing. You need to check your regulations on hunting and dog training in Califoriastan. Here in Michigan there are laws on the books that protect hunters and trainers from harassment, as long as those activities are during certain periods of times of the year. if you are on public land. Here in the east I cannot think of any group spaniel training or trials that take place on public land. Private land assures one,at this time, harassment free activity. Of course the good thing about spaniel training on any scale is that it is usually a well armed event with lots of ammunition. and like I have contended for years, I carry, because a policeman is just to heavy!
Yes you are right I never thought that I would run into this type of thing training my dog. Even though I have seen this type of thing on the news you never really think it could happen to you personally.
OK off to training (private lands this morning....yeah!)
Thanks for the advice and comments.
Jackie

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by mnaj_springer » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:00 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:There are hippie tree huggers everywhere. Just don't lose your cool. They operate on the ignorance is bliss motto.
Hey now! I'm a bit of a tree-hugger! Not with the same connotation but I'm definitely a conservationist.

As for the OP, it is my belief (and I could be wrong) that radicalism, such as you witnessesed, will not be swayed by discussion. They want a reaction. I don't know about your group, but some of my otherwise pleasant training partners would definitely speak their mind, and not won't be helpful.

It may be prudent for your group to have a discussion about people's roles of this should occur again. Who videos? Who calls LE? Who moves the "hotheads" back? Etc. A plan calms the nerves.
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by CDN_Cocker » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:14 am

mnaj_springer wrote: Hey now! I'm a bit of a tree-hugger! Not with the same connotation but I'm definitely a conservationist.
LOL there's a difference though, hunters and anglers actually support conservation and funding for it. Those other folks just like to talk about it.
Cass
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by setterpoint » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:20 am

thats right hunters and fisherman do more than anyone

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by Vernal Pike » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:53 am

Use a machete on the bloke.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by gonehuntin' » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:14 am

chrokeva wrote:
art hubbard wrote:Where in California did this happen ? I have a boy in CA. I would like to make him aware of this crap. He also trains dogs on a public training ground.
This happened at Grizzly Island Wildlife Preserve in Suisun, Ca
We used to run retriever field trials there. If that's gonna happen anywhere, it's gonna happen in Ca. Couldn't wait to leave and never been back.
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by gundogguy » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:23 am

[
Yes you are right I never thought that I would run into this type of thing training my dog. Even though I have seen this type of thing on the news you never really think it could happen to you personally.
OK off to training (private lands this morning....yeah!)
Thanks for the advice and comments.
Jackie[/quote]
Good for you! Have a great workout! Look forward to hearing about views of the up coming trial in your neck of the woods.
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by setterpoint » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:57 am

i agree you should try and contact the right people whoever that is you have rights to i think i would tell such people go to ........ you get nowhere trying to reason with that kind of people im not saying start a fight or anything but it time we take a stand you have ever right to run your dog a that land so just tell them to ....... off and walk away

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by gonehuntin' » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:07 pm

I'm also betting it was illegal for them to do that on a federal preserve.
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by Tooling » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:49 pm

I was running down the road one time already 15 over the speed limit with a semi tight on my heels. The section of road was only one lane each way w/double solid lines separating each direction (no passing).

Anyhow, lanes turned into two just ahead of a traffic light that had gone red. Once the extra lane became available, I merged to my left and stopped for the light - trucker pulls up next to me and was in full on road rage screaming profanity at me and telling me to meet with him so we could have a chat. I explained that I would be happy to if he insisted however we must await the green light. He persisted and his case of road rage was just getting worse. I picked up my phone & hit "record"

It is amazing how quickly this man became disarmed and how quickly his attitude changed..I think he even flashed me an apologetic goodbye wave once the light turned green. (And no, it wasn't the finger but a genuinely apologetic wave)

Never underestimate the power of a video to snap an individual back into a reasonable state of mind.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by gundogguy » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:57 am

NEhomer wrote:You should have asked them if they're pro abortion. :?

...I too would photograph them and their vehicle.
There is a positive to the liberal progressive that think they need to interfer with others pursuit of happiness, and their support for abortion! Think of how many of their own kind that will never make it to voting age. Abortion does keep the balance of power in check. Sick as that is it is a fact.
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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by cjhills » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:22 am

This works both ways. In Minnesota you need a permit to train or hold an event on public land. On two different occasions I have planted my birds for training only to have a NAVHDA group show up and tell me I could not shoot there because they were holding an event and one time a dog club was holding a walking trial. both told me they were not running where my birds were and they would be done soon. After they were done several members ran their dogs through the area and shot my birds. I was not very happy but they had more guns than I. Later talking to the DNR I found out neither had bothered to get a permit..............Cj

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by Tooling » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:33 am

cjhills wrote:This works both ways. In Minnesota you need a permit to train or hold an event on public land. On two different occasions I have planted my birds for training only to have a NAVHDA group show up and tell me I could not shoot there because they were holding an event and one time a dog club was holding a walking trial. both told me they were not running where my birds were and they would be done soon. After they were done several members ran their dogs through the area and shot my birds. I was not very happy but they had more guns than I. Later talking to the DNR I found out neither had bothered to get a permit..............Cj
That would fire me up pretty good & that's the precise sort of thing that's going to be the demise of this sport so long as folks insist on their entitlement and or superiority in a way such as that. I hope you contacted NAVHDA HQ.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by setterpoint » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:55 am

yea thats not fair either they should have to post sign s or somthing a week befor that way you or i would know to move on to another place just showing up and take over on pub.as i said i have no prob if i know in advance

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by chrokeva » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:42 pm

cjhills wrote:This works both ways. In Minnesota you need a permit to train or hold an event on public land. On two different occasions I have planted my birds for training only to have a NAVHDA group show up and tell me I could not shoot there because they were holding an event and one time a dog club was holding a walking trial. both told me they were not running where my birds were and they would be done soon. After they were done several members ran their dogs through the area and shot my birds. I was not very happy but they had more guns than I. Later talking to the DNR I found out neither had bothered to get a permit..............Cj
I feel it is even a bigger problem when like minded people can't get along because we already have our hands full it seems with the anti-hunting groups/people. When we set up a trial the course is set the night before so that would be a clear sign a event is being held but maybe in other parts of the country it is done differently. There are times that we drive hours to work our dogs in a particular public hunting area and I often think to myself what if we get there and they are holding a trial that we are not aware of. I can't speak for the rest of my group but if that was to happen I would vote for finding another training area or cancelling training (even though we have as much right to be there as them). Clubs spend literally thousands of dollars putting on a event (usually just once a year) and if they were to have to cancel just one event the club may not recover. I really want to see our sport grow but already feel here in California we may be fighting a loosing battle and I would not do anything to help along there anti-hunting agenda. Saying that I also understand that it would totally ruin my day. It goes without saying that everyone should have the appropriate paperwork and pay required fees for the use of public land.
In the end dog training/trialing may indeed get to a point that it just is not possible to do on public lands because everyone wants what they want.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by chrokeva » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:45 pm

Tooling wrote:I was running down the road one time already 15 over the speed limit with a semi tight on my heels. The section of road was only one lane each way w/double solid lines separating each direction (no passing).

Anyhow, lanes turned into two just ahead of a traffic light that had gone red. Once the extra lane became available, I merged to my left and stopped for the light - trucker pulls up next to me and was in full on road rage screaming profanity at me and telling me to meet with him so we could have a chat. I explained that I would be happy to if he insisted however we must await the green light. He persisted and his case of road rage was just getting worse. I picked up my phone & hit "record"

It is amazing how quickly this man became disarmed and how quickly his attitude changed..I think he even flashed me an apologetic goodbye wave once the light turned green. (And no, it wasn't the finger but a genuinely apologetic wave)

Never underestimate the power of a video to snap an individual back into a reasonable state of mind.
Sounds like a very scary situation! It does sound like turning on a record button on your phone may keep things from escalating. I will definitely remember this.

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by setterpoint » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:11 pm

if its pub.land its there for pub use its just like if im out hunting and i go to one of my spots to hunt and someone is parked there i move on to try another spot if i know thers a trial going to take place i would find somwhere else but they should have to post it to let you no about it if they do then theres no problem i might stay and watch awhile if they didnt mind

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Re: Harassment while training dogs legally on public land

Post by Wenaha » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:26 pm

Grizzly Island, huh? I used to shoot for retriever trials there. We (the shooters) were abused by a couple of the trial participants… apparently it is OK to retrieve dead birds, but not to actually kill them. Go figure. :roll:

If you were armed at the time, you might have visualized a more correct response?

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