Planting Pigeons

[okie_birdhunter]

Will it harm my 15 week old pointer to plant pigeon and allow him to go hunt the bird.

I'm using no commands just letting him run and find the bird.
The bird flies and goes back to the loft.

He's very birdie and loves searching for the bird.


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[Moulders Farm]

There is more dogs trained on pigions than any other bird . most do it on a chack cord where they have control of the puppy or dog that way you can make him point the bird & make him stay untail you or some one relices the bird depending on breed some let the dog chase or stay study to shot or untail the bird is gone . When you start hunting the bird of choice & kill a few he will know what you wont . my dogs are 7 & 8 yrs . still point pigions in my training area & hunt quail when the time comes

[okie_birdhunter]

My Small Munsterlander hasn't developed a point yet, I'm just hoping he began if I let him keep hunting pigeons due to the fact that we have almost no wild birds here where I live .


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[polmaise]

Will it harm my 15 week old pointer to plant pigeon and allow him to go hunt the bird.

I'm using no commands just letting him run and find the bird.
The bird flies and goes back to the loft.

He's very birdie and loves searching for the bird.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great that you can get the pigeon to stay there till the dog finds it and then it flies away ?

[AZ Brittany Guy]

I let my pups chase until they hold a point to the flush....then I move on to the formal breaking process.

I use a remote launcher and homers.

[Sharon]

Will it harm my 15 week old pointer to plant pigeon and allow him to go hunt the bird.

I'm using no commands just letting him run and find the bird.
The bird flies and goes back to the loft.

He's very birdie and loves searching for the bird.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is a good plan for now. Every dog starts pointing in its own time ; I'm not familiar with the learning curve of a Munsterlander.

[gundogguy]

Will it harm my 15 week old pointer to plant pigeon and allow him to go hunt the bird.

I'm using no commands just letting him run and find the bird.
The bird flies and goes back to the loft.

He's very birdie and loves searching for the bird.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great that you can get the pigeon to stay there till the dog finds it and then it flies away ?

Here you go Robert.

Pigeon planting technique for the pointing breeds only. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eGw4kmXxVQ
Planted 1000's this way over the years for the young pointing dogs

[SCT]

There is more dogs trained on pigions than any other bird . most do it on a chack cord where they have control of the puppy or dog that way you can make him point the bird & make him stay untail you or some one relices the bird depending on breed some let the dog chase or stay study to shot or untail the bird is gone . When you start hunting the bird of choice & kill a few he will know what you wont . my dogs are 7 & 8 yrs . still point pigions in my training area & hunt quail when the time comes

Please, Don't use a check cord to "make" him point. Let him be a puppy and if he finds the bird, great. 15 weeks he should be plenty big and bold enough, but watch him closely as some pups are really soft and pigeons have a loud flush.

[polmaise]

Will it harm my 15 week old pointer to plant pigeon and allow him to go hunt the bird.

I'm using no commands just letting him run and find the bird.
The bird flies and goes back to the loft.

He's very birdie and loves searching for the bird.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great that you can get the pigeon to stay there till the dog finds it and then it flies away ?

Here you go Robert.

Pigeon planting technique for the pointing breeds only. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eGw4kmXxVQ
Planted 1000's this way over the years for the young pointing dogs

Great clip 'gundogguy' . We have been doing the same for decades ..use it on the 'flushers' too! but the technique has to change to prevent the 'find/catch' !..a really good 'bird in the hand' can just about time it right ,but it takes experience for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av41yFJYrzQ

[CDN_Cocker]

Great clip 'gundogguy' . We have been doing the same for decades ..use it on the 'flushers' too! but the technique has to change to prevent the 'find/catch' !..a really good 'bird in the hand' can just about time it right ,but it takes experience for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av41yFJYrzQ

It is more common with flushers. Pointing people generally use launchers once the pup is old enough that they could catch. If you went to any spaniel training day (or trial for that matter) it would be on dizzied, planted birds.

[polmaise]

Great clip 'gundogguy' . We have been doing the same for decades ..use it on the 'flushers' too! but the technique has to change to prevent the 'find/catch' !..a really good 'bird in the hand' can just about time it right ,but it takes experience for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av41yFJYrzQ

It is more common with flushers. Pointing people generally use launchers once the pup is old enough that they could catch. If you went to any spaniel training day (or trial for that matter) it would be on dizzied, planted birds.

Like this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YI1GLChceY

[CDN_Cocker]

Like this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YI1GLChceY

LOL similar I suppose. I take it you keep pigeons too. It's a fine line between which I enjoy more - dogs or pigeons. What a sharp looking dog - he looks like a mini toller!

[polmaise]

Nah!! ..over here we train the pigeons first .
Just having fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVrtMzVO3Fg

But some can take it serious :roll:
The dogs know the difference though.

[gundogguy]

Like this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YI1GLChceY

LOL similar I suppose. I take it you keep pigeons too. It's a fine line between which I enjoy more - dogs or pigeons. What a sharp looking dog - he looks like a mini toller!

Nice clip Robert, basic "place board training without the board"I have done it that way for years. Cass always seems to be about what they look like, personally i think pigeons are flying rats and one of the reasons i have exterminated tens of of thousands over the years.

planting for the flushing dog, in spaniel cover, birds heads up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBrThQ5xOZQ

[Trekmoor]

I'm awfy glad I'm not a pigeon living in America !

Bill T.

[CDN_Cocker]

Cass always seems to be about what they look like

A lot of these videos all you can see is what they look like. As long as its birdy, being a looker as well is only a bonus to me

[gundogguy]

I'm awfy glad I'm not a pigeon living in America !

Bill T.

Or a game bird, or duck or rabbit as well I suppose! Their all dead in the end. Takes broken eggs to make an omelet.

[CDN_Cocker]

You'd be fine if I was shooting Wullie. I think the only birds I get just die from fear of the shot - no projectiles.

[ckfowler]

Young Dogs not on cc, don't you find then catching birds with head under wing?

[DonF]

If your dog is not on a check cord I would strongly discourage using the method in the you tube video. If it's on a check cord, fine. If you want to train as naturally as possible without wild bird's, the pigeon is the ticket, I find them better than wild birds as i can control more. You'd also need a set of remote release traps and to develop in yourself making the pigeon seem as wild as you can, really very simple. Dog get's to close, EVEN IF OUT OF THE SCENT CONE, pop the bird. it get's to close to a wild bird it can't smell and the wild bird is gone. If the dog relays back to you that it smells something where you planted the bird, pop the bird. Don't do that and you will teach your dog to creep. If your dog is pointing and you get around it, watch the dog, don't look for the bird. The dog moves in any way, including looking toward you, pop the bird. The dog is learning that it's it's movement that flush'e the bird! Don't temp the dog to move so you can set it back, a wild bird will never do that, neither should you. Most important, keep your mouth shut when the dog mess's up and just go on to the next bird. If you use pigeon's and your constantly correcting the dog on them, what you'll teach the dog is that the pigeon is a training bird and in time it might just quit pointing pigeon's all together! leave your dog alone and let it learn, that pigeon in the trap will teach your dog more in a shorter amount of time than you or a wild bird can, IF you do your job right and keep your mouth shut.

[ezzy333]

If your dog is not on a check cord I would strongly discourage using the method in the you tube video. If it's on a check cord, fine. If you want to train as naturally as possible without wild bird's, the pigeon is the ticket, I find them better than wild birds as i can control more. You'd also need a set of remote release traps and to develop in yourself making the pigeon seem as wild as you can, really very simple. Dog get's to close, EVEN IF OUT OF THE SCENT CONE, pop the bird. it get's to close to a wild bird it can't smell and the wild bird is gone. If the dog relays back to you that it smells something where you planted the bird, pop the bird. Don't do that and you will teach your dog to creep. If your dog is pointing and you get around it, watch the dog, don't look for the bird. The dog moves in any way, including looking toward you, pop the bird. The dog is learning that it's it's movement that flush'e the bird! Don't temp the dog to move so you can set it back, a wild bird will never do that, neither should you. Most important, keep your mouth shut when the dog mess's up and just go on to the next bird. If you use pigeon's and your constantly correcting the dog on them, what you'll teach the dog is that the pigeon is a training bird and in time it might just quit pointing pigeon's all together! leave your dog alone and let it learn, that pigeon in the trap will teach your dog more in a shorter amount of time than you or a wild bird can, IF you do your job right and keep your mouth shut.

Amen

[gundogguy]

If your dog is not on a check cord I would strongly discourage using the method in the you tube video. If it's on a check cord, fine. If you want to train as naturally as possible without wild bird's, the pigeon is the ticket, I find them better than wild birds as i can control more. You'd also need a set of remote release traps and to develop in yourself making the pigeon seem as wild as you can, really very simple. Dog get's to close, EVEN IF OUT OF THE SCENT CONE, pop the bird. it get's to close to a wild bird it can't smell and the wild bird is gone. If the dog relays back to you that it smells something where you planted the bird, pop the bird. Don't do that and you will teach your dog to creep. If your dog is pointing and you get around it, watch the dog, don't look for the bird. The dog moves in any way, including looking toward you, pop the bird. The dog is learning that it's it's movement that flush'e the bird! Don't temp the dog to move so you can set it back, a wild bird will never do that, neither should you. Most important, keep your mouth shut when the dog mess's up and just go on to the next bird. If you use pigeon's and your constantly correcting the dog on them, what you'll teach the dog is that the pigeon is a training bird and in time it might just quit pointing pigeon's all together! leave your dog alone and let it learn, that pigeon in the trap will teach your dog more in a shorter amount of time than you or a wild bird can, IF you do your job right and keep your mouth shut.

Amen

Amen, Check cord should be in place. As a side note the vids were posted not as a dog training technique but rather as a pigeon planting technique.

[DonF]

Yep! Problem being the op asked about planting pigeon's and down the road, that method works well with an experienced dog. I've always heard of that method being called, spaniel planting. if retrieving dog's catch a bird on the ground, they get full of themselves and try to catch them all. They won't catch many wild birds that way but they will push them up better, no blinking! there's another way that dizzy's the pigeon. I don't know where a video is on it and won't explain it right now. It involves dizzying a pigeon and throwing it into good cover. Plus and minus to it but works well if you understand it.

[polmaise]

Yup!
Problem with the internet and forums and You tube videos is the 'sensationalism' of them to get either likes or approval of 'wow factor' .
The work previous or behaviour previous ,or the skill experience of the trainer is often dis regarded.
This little 'flusher' came with a 'Rap sheet' ,already with Red-Eye' on catching game and all manner of critters.
Shame we had to take out all that 'au naturel' that was bred in and so un-wisely miss-used .

But hey Ho' some one has to fix it .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB_Y-8L0DJ8

Reckon a few (very few ) however have the talent or experience to 'Dizzy' a pigeon the right amount of time to get it walking in front of the dog.
Gundogguy ,if I remember had a clip a while back showing a Guy' doing something similar in the field with ''Zeta'' ? ..can't find it . ...
..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDMRsYqfdG8
On another Note : ..what happened to all those that promote 'The game teaches the dog'' ?

[Pedro]

..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDMRsYqfdG8
On another Note : ..what happened to all those that promote 'The game teaches the dog'' ? [/quote]

I know nothing about flushers, other than my pointing dogs sometimes act like one...can you comment on the dogs seeming avoidance of the bird? That second dog looks bird shy to me, like it's blinking the bird.

[DonF]

..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDMRsYqfdG8
On another Note : ..what happened to all those that promote 'The game teaches the dog'' ?

I know nothing about flushers, other than my pointing dogs sometimes act like one...can you comment on the dogs seeming avoidance of the bird? That second dog looks bird shy to me, like it's blinking the bird.[/quote]

That second dog just nay be bird shy but it is definitely working on blinking. That looks like a flushing dog to me, not sure of the breed. If a flushing dog blink's the bird might just walk off, depending on how bad the blink got. My opinion with flushing dog's is let them barge in and catch all the training birds they want. A flushing dog needs to barge in and get the bird off the ground. Make the dog think he can catch everything and he'll try, teach the dog to avoid the bird and he will soon blink. On the other side, try to never let the dog catch a bird but, if it bump's some, don't worry about it. But if you let the dog catch to many birds and it will think it can catch them all, even wild. you end up with a dog that operate's generally out of gun range bumping and running. Come down on that dog and you risk making a blinker. Blinker, a point dog that will turn away from a bird on the ground. I read from a lot of people that their dog won't point pigeon's but that is a learned trait. The trainer have trained on the bird making the drill not much fun so the dog learns to blink the training bird. The training bird can be any pigeon of game farm raised bird. Don't over train!

[polmaise]

..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDMRsYqfdG8
On another Note : ..what happened to all those that promote 'The game teaches the dog'' ?

I know nothing about flushers, other than my pointing dogs sometimes act like one...can you comment on the dogs seeming avoidance of the bird? That second dog looks bird shy to me, like it's blinking the bird.[/quote]
Yea, The second dog is the same dog .
It's what you get if you let them 'catch' a dizzy pigeon ..or anything else before ...all the basics have been installed before the real 'game' .
That's a program that many don't follow , regardless of breed.

[oldbeek]

Thanks gundogguy. Could never get pigeons to stay. The only thing I see in your method new to me, is stretching out birds feet. Jon Hann of perfect start-finish has a segment on bird planting. I followed it in detail. Bird still did not stay. Your method really works