Gun shy...maybe.

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RaiderZach
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Gun shy...maybe.

Post by RaiderZach » Mon May 23, 2016 7:48 am

So I've done a ton of yard work with my dog myself, and sent him to the trainer for 2 months to polish him up. He's doing great, holding his points and is steady to wing shot and fall. He does try at times try to dive in on birds he can see on the ground about 1/4 of the time. We're working on cleaning that last bit up and he's getting better and better. He's a vizsla and only about a year old, so I am actually very happy with his progress.

My question is about gunshyness. When I took him to the trainer they worked hard on breaking him on shyness and when I would come visit and on the day I picked him up, he seemed broke of it. The gun noise itself does not phase him, especially in the field. When we got home however, he still seems to cower at the sight of MY shotgun. Is this still gunshyness, or something else? I am trying to use positive reinforcement with him by holding the shotgun and opening and closing the chamber while he gets a treat or is petted by me. Is there anything else I should do?

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ezzy333
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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 23, 2016 7:59 am

Sounds like you may be rewarding it for being shy.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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crackerd
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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by crackerd » Mon May 23, 2016 8:51 am

RaiderZach wrote:My question is about gunshyness. When I took him to the trainer they worked hard on breaking him on shyness and when I would come visit and on the day I picked him up, he seemed broke of it. The gun noise itself does not phase him, especially in the field. When we got home however, he still seems to cower at the sight of MY shotgun. Is this still gunshyness, or something else? I am trying to use positive reinforcement with him by holding the shotgun and opening and closing the chamber while he gets a treat or is petted by me. Is there anything else I should do?
How did the dog develop this fearful association with your shotgun? I've got a FT Lab that's overly sensitive to anything invading her space for the first time, even something like blowing a bubblegum bubble - and was doubly wary with her standoffishness at seeing me carrying a shotgun into a duck blind for the first time (even though the dog had retrieved hundreds of training birds that were shot from a distance and never flinched). She was wary of the shotgun until she made the realization that it's the instrument when "properly operated," that provides retrieves for her. Not a gunshy a lick, never was, just wary and I said overly sensitive to first-time (and maybe second- and third- and even fourth-time) experiences. What's the history with your dog and your shotgun?

MG

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ezzy333
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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 23, 2016 11:50 am

crackerd wrote:
RaiderZach wrote:My question is about gunshyness. When I took him to the trainer they worked hard on breaking him on shyness and when I would come visit and on the day I picked him up, he seemed broke of it. The gun noise itself does not phase him, especially in the field. When we got home however, he still seems to cower at the sight of MY shotgun. Is this still gunshyness, or something else? I am trying to use positive reinforcement with him by holding the shotgun and opening and closing the chamber while he gets a treat or is petted by me. Is there anything else I should do?
How did the dog develop this fearful association with your shotgun? I've got a FT Lab that's overly sensitive to anything invading her space for the first time, even something like blowing a bubblegum bubble - and was doubly wary with her standoffishness at seeing me carrying a shotgun into a duck blind for the first time (even though the dog had retrieved hundreds of training birds that were shot from a distance and never flinched). She was wary of the shotgun until she made the realization that it's the instrument when "properly operated," that provides retrieves for her. Not a gunshy a lick, never was, just wary and I said overly sensitive to first-time (and maybe second- and third- and even fourth-time) experiences. What's the history with your dog and your shotgun?

MG
You bring out the point I didn't have time to address this morning. To cure the pup you will have to show him the gun is what produces the birds he loves to find and not just something I get a treat for if I show any sign of fear. Think about it and decide what the best way you have available to do that and if and when the dog shows any sign of fear ignore it. the dog will continue to feed off of your actions and as long as he gets any kind of a reward he will continue what he is doing.

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by polmaise » Mon May 23, 2016 1:17 pm

My penny .
Hear me out ?
There is no such thing as 'Gun shy' ! ..There is however (imo) actions and incidents that have correlation to a gun ,and there are also the same that bare resemblance to a stick or an arm or perhaps even a broom .
A Pup or young dog does not know what a gun is unless it has a relation to what the gun provides . It also doesn't have any knowledge of what a broom does ,until it is stable in the knowledge that the broom is only is operated when the dog is either sleeping/sitting/or standing or doing something else when the broom is used,which gives no reward for the dog/pup.
If one was to use a broom to strike the dog ,I'm sure the dog would fear the broom or strike the broom ?
You still with me ?
......
I'm kinda tired right now and I would like to help, but I have loads going on ,so don't despair with your dog and your trainer ,and I'm sure you will get loads of good advice.
Was the pup 'gun shy' when it was born ? ??

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crackerd
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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by crackerd » Mon May 23, 2016 2:30 pm

polmaise wrote:My penny ...
Was the pup 'gun shy' when it was born ? ??
Wisdom worth far more than a penny or tuppence right there - and dispensed to let you know if there's any gunshyness in a dog, any dog, it was put there in the "nurturing," not by nature.

MG

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ezzy333
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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by ezzy333 » Mon May 23, 2016 3:03 pm

crackerd wrote:
polmaise wrote:My penny ...
Was the pup 'gun shy' when it was born ? ??
Wisdom worth far more than a penny or tuppence right there - and dispensed to let you know if there's any gunshyness in a dog, any dog, it was put there in the "nurturing," not by nature.

MG
Agree completely but can't understand how many still to this day will argue it.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon May 23, 2016 3:14 pm

The other thing to consider is that the dog may not be shy of the gun but of a "stick". If he was spanked with a yard stick, whacked with a broom, had a heeling stick poorly used on him, any sight of any thing like that my make him shy. In my opinion, it's nothing to be worried about. Simple ignore it. Don't pet the dog or anything else when he cringes, just carry on as normal.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

polmaise
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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by polmaise » Mon May 23, 2016 3:22 pm

Oh!! and sticks or brooms don't go bang . That in it'self is something else . I as a child got a fright when someone blew up a 'potato chip' packet and popped it !..until I knew it was a 'crisp packet' of course . silly me , dumb child. I don't like potato chips . I'm 56 years old man .

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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue May 24, 2016 4:37 am

He said the gun noise doesn't phase the dog.
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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by RayGubernat » Tue May 24, 2016 7:48 am

If the gun noise did not seem to bother the dog, then it might be "shy" of some other facet of the process.

I agree with others that the best way to work through this is to show the dog that the gun means it gets to wrap its gums around a bird. Kill some birds for the dog. If it breaks...kill the bird anyway. If the dog becomes a little unbroken...so what? At one year old it is still very much a puppy. once the dog is bold and confident and happy about guns and birds and all of it... you can then work on finishing it up.

I do not have a great deal of experience with V's, but what experience I do have with them suggests that, s a breed, they are smart, a bit overly sensitive to corrections and that they remember bad stuff far too well. I also agree with ignoring the behavior you don't wish to encourage and acknowledging the behaviors you DO want to encourage. I would be as positive and display as much confidence as I could to the dog during training.

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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by setterpoint » Tue May 24, 2016 11:58 am

when you get the dog out or let him out pick up the shotgun first dont open and close the gun just have it with you .you want the dog to think the gun is fun time if you just set on the porch lean the gun up next to you pet the dog he will soon asc. the gun with happy times if you go for a walk if you can carry the gun with you .i did a lot of this with my e collar when my dogs see i have the collar in my hand they know it means fun for them

polmaise
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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by polmaise » Tue May 24, 2016 12:08 pm

RaiderZach wrote:When I took him to the trainer they worked hard on breaking him on shyness and when I would come visit and on the day I picked him up, he seemed broke of it.
Why would they have to do this ?

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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by Vman » Tue May 24, 2016 2:29 pm

The gun noise itself does not phase him, especially in the field. When we got home however, he still seems to cower at the sight of MY shotgun. Is this still gunshyness, or something else? I am trying to use positive reinforcement with him by holding the shotgun and opening and closing the chamber while he gets a treat or is petted by me. Is there anything else I should do?
First off there is loud noise sensitivity or gun sensitive, and Gunshy. Two different things. But gs will lead to GS. It sounds like you had a gun sensitive dog, probably why you sent him to the trainer. The trainer worked on him and got him over the hump as you witnessed. I am thinking the dog is associating some negativity from you or his surroundings. Was the dog exposed to fireworks at some point at home? I would suggest you go back to the trainer and let him handle the dog again and you witness from a distance. If everything looks good, you slide into the picture and look for a change in his demeanor. If everything still looks good there, maybe try a new field with the trainer present. Sounds like the trainer did his job, but he needs to work on you. Like the majority of canine problems, he is experiencing some confusion and I am thinking it is you that is doing it.
On the flip side I would not worry at this time if the dog does not get excited when seeing the shotgun. it is what he does in the field that counts. Have you taken him out with birds? Or just showing him a shotgun to get a read on the dog? Good Luck.

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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by RoostersMom » Tue May 24, 2016 2:42 pm

He's only a year old. V's can be super sensitive, especially to gunfire. Continue training with birds and the gun, but make it fun for him. Having a completely steady one year old is hard - having a completely steady one year old that is gunshy and a Vizsla is very hard! I'd re-visit the trainer and spend some time there with you and he and the dog and your gun.

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Re: Gun shy...maybe.

Post by polmaise » Tue May 24, 2016 2:57 pm

Personally I would just give the dog a belly rub and throw a ball.

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