Force Fetch - next steps after the yard

[Makintrax73]

I started a force fetch program with my 2yo Setter in January. Prior to starting this he had very little interest in retrieving anything even if he was
chasing something thrown for him - he would usually mouth the bumper and play with it, but not even carry it. My first go at ff, and there was some very bad
days, but I have gotten to a place I'm happy with (finally).

I can now place the dog on a whoa in the yard, walk out with a bumper place it on the ground and have him promptly go to the bumper and bring it to hand. If I use
his favorite bumper with a pheasant wing tied to it he gets very excited and charges to the bumper to get it, but he still does a nice job and looks happy doing a couple
drills even without that "special" bumper. I have a frozen quail too, and he loves that too, but it is so unnatural I only used it a couple times. I do no more than 3 to 4
retrieves a day in the yard.

So some suggestions for drills or additional training before I start shooting birds over the dog again? I don't want to screw this up and make killing birds over the dog
a step backward. I'm looking for some intermediate step if there is such a thing. I sort of figured I would just get him in the field and whoa him and throw a
bumper in the grass (maybe pop my starter pistol?).

[Stoneface]

I'm don't have any suggestions for you, but am posting to have it put at the top of the list. I'm surpirsed people aren't all over it with the way everyone is so crazy about force fetching a dog.

[Meller]

Are you throwing any bumpers or just walking out and placing them? He really should experience something falling from the air to retrieve, then possibly with an added shot.

[Makintrax73]

Are you throwing any bumpers or just walking out and placing them? He really should experience something falling from the air to retrieve, then possibly with an added shot.

Both. Placed or thrown bumpers. Dog is totally reliable in the yard, and excited about the job (in the yard)

Have tried shooting a couple birds with the local NAVHDA chapter. Dog is inconsistent in the field. If he is hot he does not want feathers in his mouth period. The dog is very sensitive to heat, and it causes everything to degrade not just fetch.

I have started taking him in the field with a frozen chukar. When he gets hot I put him on a lead and run a pinch/grab/hold or short retrieve. Hopefully it just will take some reinforcing.

[gonehuntin']

Does the setter even LIKE birds? Some setters simply HATE to retrieve and NO amount of force will EVER make the dog a good retriever. If you throw a clip wing in the yard, will he chase it and grab it?

[Swampbilly]

I'm don't have any suggestions for you, but am posting to have it put at the top of the list. I'm surpirsed people aren't all over it with the way everyone is so crazy about force fetching a dog.

What's the problem with folks who want to get more out of their dogs?

[Swampbilly]

I started a force fetch program with my 2yo Setter in January. Prior to starting this he had very little interest in retrieving anything even if he was
chasing something thrown for him - he would usually mouth the bumper and play with it, but not even carry it. My first go at ff, and there was some very bad
days, but I have gotten to a place I'm happy with (finally).

I can now place the dog on a whoa in the yard, walk out with a bumper place it on the ground and have him promptly go to the bumper and bring it to hand. If I use
his favorite bumper with a pheasant wing tied to it he gets very excited and charges to the bumper to get it, but he still does a nice job and looks happy doing a couple
drills even without that "special" bumper. I have a frozen quail too, and he loves that too, but it is so unnatural I only used it a couple times. I do no more than 3 to 4
retrieves a day in the yard.

So some suggestions for drills or additional training before I start shooting birds over the dog again? I don't want to screw this up and make killing birds over the dog
a step backward. I'm looking for some intermediate step if there is such a thing. I sort of figured I would just get him in the field and whoa him and throw a
bumper in the grass (maybe pop my starter pistol?).

As Gonehuntin' asked does your dog like live birds? Is there any prey drive, or is it more like a " structured, rehearsed" ho hum run out to a mark?

[Makintrax73]

Does the setter even LIKE birds? Some setters simply HATE to retrieve and NO amount of force will EVER make the dog a good retriever. If you throw a clip wing in the yard, will he chase it and grab it?

Never used a clip wing, but I would say yes. He has grabbed/mouthed birds on his own accord. Retrieved a short ways a couple times on his own last season before I started FF. Certainly not like my previous shorthairs though. More a focus issue I think. Would rather run and hunt, and doesn't like sticky feathers in his mouth when trying to breath.

[gonehuntin']

I would never FF a dog if he didn't like birds. If they'd chase and catch a clip wing, I'd FF them. If not, I'd send them home. You see, when you force a dog you NEVER make a good retriever out of him. You can make him pick up an object when YOU can also see it, but you can NEVER make him HUNT for a bird and retrieve it. Most will either blink the bird or just take off and hunt. It's a waste of time and when I did it, I felt a waste of the clients money. Some times when you FF a dog, they will also just quit hunting. You pick your battles.

[Stoneface]

I'm don't have any suggestions for you, but am posting to have it put at the top of the list. I'm surpirsed people aren't all over it with the way everyone is so crazy about force fetching a dog.

What's the problem with folks who want to get more out of their dogs?

I don't know what you mean.

[gonehuntin']

I'm don't have any suggestions for you, but am posting to have it put at the top of the list. I'm surpirsed people aren't all over it with the way everyone is so crazy about force fetching a dog.

What's the problem with folks who want to get more out of their dogs?

I don't know what you mean.

To understand what Swamp said, you have to understand the CONCEPT of ff.