pups first year hunting

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:37 pm

i have a fourteen mo. old english setter female in the spring she was pointing woobcock and she still will point woodcock and grouse the only prob i have if she hits the bird and it sits still she will hold point but if it runs she will take off after the bird my plan is just let her work it out herself or has any one a thought on this

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:05 am

You could do what you suggest and it will work.

You could, and I STRONGLY suggest that you ... supplement the field work with yardwork. Steady is steady. Whoa means do not move even a toenail...no matter what. In the yard, you can put a dog at heel and then stop and make it stand. You can push it, pull it, walk around and if it moves, pick it up , put it back(gently) and stroke it up. You can put a dog on a barrel or bench or whoa post or board...or whatever...and toss out a pigeon or quail or chuckar (I suggest pigeon), and have the dog watch it fly away...and if it moves...correct it and put it back. You can progress to a bird with its wings wrapped so that it walks around. Again, if the dog moves so much as a toenail, shuffles its feet...whatever...correct it, put it back and stroke it back up.

Ideally you should have been doing heel/whoa drills or some other steadying drills in the yard for most of this summer with your dog, but now is better than not at all. I have always done these drills twice a day...first thing in the morning, when I go out to the dogs to clean up and let them run around(before I went to work) and after dinner when I went out to clean them up and let them run around. Heel/whoa drills take about two minutes to do. Walk 20-30 feet and stop. Walk another 20-30 feet andstop walk 10 feet, turn to the right , walk 10 ft. and stop. Do the same and turn to the left. Done.

It ultimately does not matter where the WHOA command comes from. If it comes from your mouth as a word...the dog must stop, stand and grow roots. if it is a hand or whistle signal...once again the dog must stop, stand and grow roots. if i5t is the sight of another dog on point...the same response is to be expected and required. If the WHOA command comes from the sight or scent of a bird...you must continue to expect and demand and train toward the required response, which is... stop, stand and grow roots, no matter what happens afterward.

Patience, persistence and continued insistence on the level of performance you demand will get you where you need to be with your dog... pretty much regardless of the path you choose to get there. Some paths are easier and/or faster than others.

RayG

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:18 am

she will whoa in the yard and in the field .but birds she gets so wired up i will go back to the yard and do some of the things you said. thanks for the info thats good advise wish i had used birds befor while whoa training

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:00 pm

Are you talking about a bird she sees? Or is a bird she pointed and then ran out from under point?

Personally I'm ok with my dog relocating on her own if the bird moves off as long as she doesn't bump it. I'm not sure if Ray has the same standard, but he definitely has more experience than I have.

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:50 pm

it a bird that moves after she pointed it she takes off after it and the birds takes flight she will figer things out but i am going to do what ray said in the yard and make the bird walk off

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:59 pm

setterpoint wrote:she will whoa in the yard and in the field .but birds she gets so wired up i will go back to the yard and do some of the things you said. thanks for the info thats good advise wish i had used birds befor while whoa training

The advantage of having the dog on a bench or barrel, for example, is that you have set up and have control of the situation. What I do is have a bungee cord on the dog's collar adjusted so that when the dog comes off the bench after a bird, it is hung up by the cord with its back feet being able to JUST touch the ground.

I let the dog "hang there" for a minute or so, just to let the consequences of their action sink in. Then I gently pick the dog up and put it back on the bench, style it up and stroke it up. The "hanging around" does no harm as long as the dog's feet can touch the ground... but the dog's really don't like it. A couple or three sessions and even a stubborn dog will usually stand there. Once they stand for the bird flying past them, you can move to the bird walking in front.
Then, on your succeeding repetitions, You are in a position to start praising the dog for doing it right. Positive reinforcement is powerful. The praise can be verbal or a pat on the flank, or both. The ultimate reward will be in the field when the dog does it right, you shoot the bird and then release the dog for the retrieve. If the dog only gets to wrap its gums around a bird if it does everything the way you want...that is what the dog will WANT to do.

Oh yeah...almost forgot...I do all of this yardwork silently. No verbalization or cautionary gestures at all. I want it to be between the dog and the bird, just as it is in the field. I stroke and style the dog up, push on the rump, push down on the shoulders as I do every other time, but that is all.

Hang in there. Patience, persistence and insistence. Calm and cool... repetition, repetition.. It will happen.

RayG

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:42 pm

hunted her this morning watched her wind a woodcock she circle the bird with her nose in the air then the bird flushed she watched it fly off.at 10 months she was pointing those birds if it was just one bird that would not be such a big deal my qustion is why is she doing this

bonasa · Post by **bonasa** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:53 pm

Was it windy and warm/dry? If tou have been putting pressure on her she is blinking the bird due to, to much pressure to get her to hold point.Sounds soft and is a bit young, hunt the season and only shoot solid points, keep your mouth shut. Spring ,ease back into the training with stop to flush (no scent) and progress to working on scented birds. You have the whole spring, summer and in the fall take a buddy the first month and you watch the dog under hunting conditions. After that I like to watch the dog on the first bird of the day and make sure it's going to be steady. No rush, kill a bunch of birds for the dog off its points, get its confidence back and resume breaking in the spring.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:45 pm

setterpoint wrote:hunted her this morning watched her wind a woodcock she circle the bird with her nose in the air then the bird flushed she watched it fly off.at 10 months she was pointing those birds if it was just one bird that would not be such a big deal my qustion is why is she doing this

There's two things to take into account. 1) How were the scenting conditions? And 2) have these birds seen some hunting pressure? In other words, are these birds being less tolerant of the same things she did previously?

My thoughts on the first season are that its a learning experience. heck, my 2 year old in what is technically her second season (although her first was very limited with no birds shot over her) has only a couple solid points. For her, I know it's scenting conditions. It's been windless with thick cover due to a wet summer. She's doing honest work but it's been tough. I agree with the above. Be quiet and shoot well handled birds. Let her discover that hunting is fun.

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:04 am

just to update things hunted her this morning she pointed two woodcock i got one of them so things seem to be improving

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