Setter Retrieving

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northwoodshunter
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Setter Retrieving

Post by northwoodshunter » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:13 pm

Hi, my pup has been doing great in everything but retrieving. He listens good and holds point pretty good. Hoping more Ruffed Grouse exposure will make him even more solid. Anyway, he wouldn't retrieve in North Dakota this year, which honestly isnt that big of a deal to me if he only retrieves sometimes, but I want to work with him more and more on retrieving until he will do it. He would sometimes run to the down bird if he saw it fall, but wouldn't pick it up. If anyone has any tips or programs that could be recommended that would be great!
Thanks

Soignie
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Soignie » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:12 pm

My only tip to you is don't worry about it for now and simply enjoy your fine young dog. There will be plenty of time after the season is over to worry about turning pup into a retriever for next season.

mnaj_springer
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by mnaj_springer » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:19 pm

Soignie wrote:My only tip to you is don't worry about it for now and simply enjoy your fine young dog. There will be plenty of time after the season is over to worry about turning pup into a retriever for next season.
Yep. Not much to do this season. FF can help but that's a project for February
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NEhomer
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by NEhomer » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:14 am

My setter's just terrific at everything I've ever trained him to do. He's fully staunch, he adjusts his range perfectly, his recall is 100% but darned if he'll retrieve a bird to me. I thought I could force fetch him beginning in late summer but nope, I had to stop just to hunt this year...I'll try again in the spring.

If grabbing the bird and running away with it counts for anything he has untrieving down pretty well!

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IANative
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by IANative » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:26 am

NEhomer wrote:If grabbing the bird and running away with it counts for anything he has untrieving down pretty well!
"Unretrieving," I like it. LOL

northwoodshunter
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by northwoodshunter » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Alright, I will start more when the season is over. Today when I took him out to hunt today, for grouse, we only saw 6, but I think he either busted one or pointed then busted it which caused them all to fly. Should I be doing something to help that or just keep getting him out there to eventually make him steady?

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Sharon
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Sharon » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:29 pm

Let the birds teach the dog. Say nothing. The dog is learning even though it may not look like it. jmo
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by polmaise » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:03 pm

Soignie wrote:My only tip to you is don't worry about it for now and simply enjoy your fine young dog. There will be plenty of time after the season is over to worry about turning pup into a retriever for next season.
My only tip is to train the dog the process of retrieving ''anything'' before any field trips this season and next season will be a joy for everyone .

Leeza
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Leeza » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:43 pm

I always play retrieve games with mine when they're young. Is there anything he likes to carry around in his mouth naturally? Like your old shoe, hunting boot, small hand broom or whatnot? This first year have him just bring that kind of stuff to you if he's already running around with it in his mouth. Lots of praise when he brings you something, anything, make him proud. Does he live in the house with you? It will be easier for him to grab a boot or two for you as a game if he knows that means he gets to go huntin'. Use the same word you would use to have him release a bird to your hand. You can introduce a lot of the process to him now as long as it's low key and fun. Some setters really take to retrieving when it's a fun part of the job, some have to be force fetched. It's definitely easier to figure that tendency out when they're young, once they're older and out of the habit they don't go back to it naturally. Do you hunt with anyone that has a retriever? If your dog and that dog are buddies, your dog may pick up retrieving just out of sheer competition. Just make sure they have a good bond first so your dog doesn't get roughed up by the other dog. Have fun with him :)

mnaj_springer
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by mnaj_springer » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:21 am

northwoodshunter wrote:Alright, I will start more when the season is over. Today when I took him out to hunt today, for grouse, we only saw 6, but I think he either busted one or pointed then busted it which caused them all to fly. Should I be doing something to help that or just keep getting him out there to eventually make him steady?
You can say nothing, as Sharon stated, and it will eventually work. My pup was pointing then busting birds earlier this year. At one point it was while I was walking in... so I grabbed her and set her back. Then she stood there for 5 minutes before I released her. She's been steady since.
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Sharon
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Sharon » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:01 pm

Good point .
Depends to a large degree on the age and experience of the dog. I forget the OP's dog was one in April. His dog has also had a fair bit of experience with birds. He should follow your advice mnaj.
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mnaj_springer
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by mnaj_springer » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:52 pm

Sharon wrote:Good point .
Depends to a large degree on the age and experience of the dog. I forget the OP's dog was one in April. His dog has also had a fair bit of experience with birds. He should follow your advice mnaj.
I wasn't trying to contradict you Sharon. You have much more experience than me. I just know my dog. My pup knows the rules. And I was patient with her transition to giving wild birds adequate space. But when she pointed than ran in, I knew she needed a reminder of how this works. I knew, at the time, it was right because I know my dog.

To the OP... You're the expert on your dog. You know how far your pup has come. Reading the dog will tell you what the appropriate reaction is.
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Sharon
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Sharon » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:50 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
Sharon wrote:Good point .
Depends to a large degree on the age and experience of the dog. I forget the OP's dog was one in April. His dog has also had a fair bit of experience with birds. He should follow your advice mnaj.
I wasn't trying to contradict you Sharon. You have much more experience than me. I just know my dog. My pup knows the rules. And I was patient with her transition to giving wild birds adequate space. But when she pointed than ran in, I knew she needed a reminder of how this works. I knew, at the time, it was right because I know my dog.

To the OP... You're the expert on your dog. You know how far your pup has come. Reading the dog will tell you what the appropriate reaction is.
I don't think so. I'm just older than you. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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ezzy333
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:30 pm

Sharon wrote: I don't think so. I'm just older than you. :)
You are older than everyone!!!!
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Sharon
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Sharon » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:31 pm

Hey!! I'm not older than you! :lol:
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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ezzy333
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:56 pm

Sharon wrote:Hey!! I'm not older than you! :lol:
Oh you are right. I forgot
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

northwoodshunter
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by northwoodshunter » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:40 pm

Leeza wrote:I always play retrieve games with mine when they're young. Is there anything he likes to carry around in his mouth naturally? Like your old shoe, hunting boot, small hand broom or whatnot? This first year have him just bring that kind of stuff to you if he's already running around with it in his mouth. Lots of praise when he brings you something, anything, make him proud. Does he live in the house with you? It will be easier for him to grab a boot or two for you as a game if he knows that means he gets to go huntin'. Use the same word you would use to have him release a bird to your hand. You can introduce a lot of the process to him now as long as it's low key and fun. Some setters really take to retrieving when it's a fun part of the job, some have to be force fetched. It's definitely easier to figure that tendency out when they're young, once they're older and out of the habit they don't go back to it naturally. Do you hunt with anyone that has a retriever? If your dog and that dog are buddies, your dog may pick up retrieving just out of sheer competition. Just make sure they have a good bond first so your dog doesn't get roughed up by the other dog. Have fun with him :)
He does live in the house with me, and he likes this deer antler i let him chew and play with and one of his toys. He will retrieve those things. Like if i take him out to my brothers who has two labs and a lot of land and one of us throw a stick all three will go after it and anyone of them will bring it back. But when i was out there he didnt really pick it up. It seemed like if he saw it fall he would go find it then mess with it till someone picked it up then instantly back to searching. He only went to down birds probably 3 times

northwoodshunter
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by northwoodshunter » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:43 pm

I dont really mind if he only retrieves like 50% of the time honestly, but i do want him as steady as i can get him before I get help from trainers and such.

Leeza
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Leeza » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:59 am

Ok, he may not always see or mark the bird fall if he is in heavy cover or just the simple fact that he is young and that takes lots of practice. He is on the right track if he went to 3 of them. You say he will go to a thrown object, mess around with it, and you or your brother then pick it up and he goes on "hunting" or searching, that is the reward. That is his motivation. You will have to now set the rule that he has to retrieve something to you and then he gets to go on "hunting". You will have to introduce this idea to him away from the other dogs and all those shenanigans. This is now the deal you strike between you and him. This will be intense for him, If he does it right once, that's it for the day, he now gets to romp around and "hunt". No more retrieving until next time. Be prepared with scented dummies or other fun stuff to trail and hide in cover for him. Make it as realistic as you can with trailing and retrieving things and that will translate instantly while hunting if you use the same command. He will not likely ever want to play endless retrieving games like a labrador would. You have to mix it up and keep him interested. You have hunted him already and you may have reenforced you will pick up the birds for him and he can go on hunting. Start working on the deal you made with him when you're out hunting. Even a halfway retrieve is a start for your young dog. All setters are like this to some degree or another, so don't sweat it too much. I have a youngster that retrieves part way and then tosses things at me. She's really subtle. :D

northwoodshunter
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by northwoodshunter » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:53 pm

Mine will also try to throw the toys and retrieving stuff i have for him sometimes. But usually as long as we arent somewhere he knows we are gonna hunt, he will retrieve sticks and toys and dummy pretty good. probably 60% of the time with no collar and 90%ish with the collar on. But like I said when we are hunting he would sometimes run to it if he saw it and he'd like try grabbing it or would grab it but wouldn't bring it anywhere. So ill start taking everyones advice on this and hopefully he will take to it well.

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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Ouzel » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:45 pm

Northwoodshunter: you might try teaching a "trained retrieve", using positive reinforcement (food) to shape the retrieve. You don't have to wait until the end of the season but you do do need to completely understand what you're doing and how to do it. Once the dog gets the process of picking an object up and delivering it to you then you can start putting feathers on it and proceed from there. It works on dogs that hate retrieving. And FF may not be necessary, but, again, if that's where you're headed, I don't see any reason to wait until next year.

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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by mnaj_springer » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:17 am

Ouzel wrote:Northwoodshunter: you might try teaching a "trained retrieve", using positive reinforcement (food) to shape the retrieve. You don't have to wait until the end of the season but you do do need to completely understand what you're doing and how to do it. Once the dog gets the process of picking an object up and delivering it to you then you can start putting feathers on it and proceed from there. It works on dogs that hate retrieving. And FF may not be necessary, but, again, if that's where you're headed, I don't see any reason to wait until next year.
There is a reason to wait to FF until the season is over. If you begin FF then go hunting, there is a chance to go backwards. If you shot a bird the dog may retrieve perfectly, but likely it wouldn't and you'd be forced to choose between enforcing the rules and confusing the dog, or not enforcing the rules, going backwards, and confusing the dog. Either way, not good. For the average Hunter, the best time to FF is late January or February.
“Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.”
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Ouzel » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:41 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
There is a reason to wait to FF until the season is over. If you begin FF then go hunting, there is a chance to go backwards. If you shot a bird the dog may retrieve perfectly, but likely it wouldn't and you'd be forced to choose between enforcing the rules and confusing the dog, or not enforcing the rules, going backwards, and confusing the dog. Either way, not good. For the average Hunter, the best time to FF is late January or February.
What's your level of certainty about this opinion? What's your experience FF'ing dogs during the hunting season?

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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by mnaj_springer » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:49 pm

Ouzel wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:
There is a reason to wait to FF until the season is over. If you begin FF then go hunting, there is a chance to go backwards. If you shot a bird the dog may retrieve perfectly, but likely it wouldn't and you'd be forced to choose between enforcing the rules and confusing the dog, or not enforcing the rules, going backwards, and confusing the dog. Either way, not good. For the average Hunter, the best time to FF is late January or February.
What's your level of certainty about this opinion? What's your experience FF'ing dogs during the hunting season?
Ouzel... What I described is generally considered best practice. So I am fairly certain it is best practice for the average guy or gal (please read that "fairly certain" in a humble Midwest tone). But the way you ask makes me believe you have an axe to grind... you'll have to grind it elsewhere.
“Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.”
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Ouzel
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Re: Setter Retrieving

Post by Ouzel » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:31 pm

no axe, just wondering about your level of expertise. I'm no expert myself but haven't' seen a problem having to interrupt training or the hunting season the few times I've done it.

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