Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

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Jared77
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Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by Jared77 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:05 am

Hello,

I'm a father of a young family looking at a possible future dog. I currently have a field bred 9yo Golden Retriever who is a solid waterfowl dog and upland bird dog.

Lately though I haven't been doing much upland bird hunting. Focus has been on waterfowl and honestly rabbits because it's just too big a commitment to get up north to chase grouse. For me "it's Tuesday I've got a few hours let's get after them".

That being said Im a big fan of the spaniel folks who get their dogs steady to flush on rabbits. Thing is my wife is not a spaniel fan. She likes other people's spaniels just doesn't want one under her roof.

So what I'm wondering is anybody training retrievers to be used to flush birds and rabbits like a spaniel? How realistic is that? All my rabbit dog experience has been with friends of friends beagles. Or am I better off with a versatile breed like a Wirehaired pointer?

I appreciate your thoughts on this...

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crackerd
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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by crackerd » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:14 am

Jared77 wrote:I'm a father of a young family looking at a possible future dog. I currently have a field bred 9yo Golden Retriever who is a solid waterfowl dog and upland bird dog.

Lately though I haven't been doing much upland bird hunting. Focus has been on waterfowl and honestly rabbits because it's just too big a commitment to get up north to chase grouse. For me "it's Tuesday I've got a few hours let's get after them".

That being said Im a big fan of the spaniel folks who get their dogs steady to flush on rabbits. Thing is my wife is not a spaniel fan. She likes other people's spaniels just doesn't want one under her roof.

So what I'm wondering is anybody training retrievers to be used to flush birds and rabbits like a spaniel? How realistic is that? All my rabbit dog experience has been with friends of friends beagles. Or am I better off with a versatile breed like a Wirehaired pointer?
You could be better off for pointing rabbits with a GWP or any of the versatile breeds but if you were a purist you'd also want them flushing on command, which is time consuming and antithetical to their nature to train. Most folks with versatile breeds don't want their dogs going anywhere near rabbits. Best flushing "non-spaniel" I had was a toller - but then again she was trained as a spaniel, quartering and hupping to flush.

Image

But if you could work on your powers of persuasion, the wife couldn't help but come around to the best flushing and doving (and retrieving) spaniel, the Boykin.

Image

MG

Jared77
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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by Jared77 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:23 pm

Crackerd the description of your Toller is what I was thinking of trying to accomplish with a potential future Golden (as it's a breed I know I could have again).

If I went that route is it better to focus on the flushing aspects first before switching gears and working on the more controlled retriever exercises? Goal has been both AKC & UKC hunt tests both retriever and upland tests. I run my current Golden in AKC & UKC hunt tests. Now that the spaniel tests are open to retrievers Id gladly run there too. He's not reliably steady and at this point I'm not going to push it. He's a great dog but I'm going to let him enjoy his time rather than force the steady issue. The next dog will be steady to flush, shot and fall.

I train with a lot of positive methods in fact I did not FF my current Golden. He has never given me an issue as I used a lot if placeboards and reward based training to get him where I wanted him.

Believe me Id take whatever spaniel my wife would let me. Your posts with your Boykins always impress me and it's good to see flushers getting it done whatever the task is.

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by Trekmoor » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:36 pm

I trained a couple of labs as rabbit hunters and they both enjoyed it very much ! :lol: Just pretend the lab is a spaniel and train it "as a spaniel." You will find that the labs , or any other dogs, do not know that they are not spaniels. The big advantage of a spaniel over a lab (for example) is that the spaniels size tends to make it a better dog in very thick cover and the other thing is that good spaniel breeders breed for courage in cover.

I've also trained and worked Brittanies and various other versatile breeds as "rabbit dogs." I expected those dogs to point the rabbit (or hare) then flush it on command , then be steady to flush and shot etc. Finally they also had to retrieve the rabbits. The dogs loved it, nobody had told them they were only supposed to point birds ! :lol:

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by polmaise » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:11 pm

Almost any Gun dog Breed can be trained to flush Rabbits .
Mind you ...I have also had and seen a few Collie's do the same .

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by jpiantedosi » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:51 am

I killed hundreds of rabbits over a lab that would stop to flush, and then retrieve. I would assume that a golden would do the same.

Id have bigger issue with being told what i could and couldn't have.....


Jim

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by Jared77 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:12 pm

Our dogs live indoors and are family members so I'm not going to say she has to live with a certain dog or breed either. So we compromise. It's more important for me to have a dog than can do what I want than a specific breed. I reallybenjoy my Golden so another one trained like a spaniel would definitely fit my needs.

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by Sharon » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:40 pm

Jared77 wrote:Crackerd the description of your Toller is what I was thinking of trying to accomplish with a potential future Golden (as it's a breed I know I could have again).

If I went that route is it better to focus on the flushing aspects first before switching gears and working on the more controlled retriever exercises? Goal has been both AKC & UKC hunt tests both retriever and upland tests. I run my current Golden in AKC & UKC hunt tests. Now that the spaniel tests are open to retrievers Id gladly run there too. He's not reliably steady and at this point I'm not going to push it. He's a great dog but I'm going to let him enjoy his time rather than force the steady issue. The next dog will be steady to flush, shot and fall.

I train with a lot of positive methods in fact I did not FF my current Golden. He has never given me an issue as I used a lot if placeboards and reward based training to get him where I wanted him.

Believe me Id take whatever spaniel my wife would let me
. Your posts with your Boykins always impress me and it's good to see flushers getting it done whatever the task is.

Jared . Time to put your foot down. :) My husband went away for a weekend and came home to find my first dog. We've still been happily married 43 years. Get what you want. :wink:
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by mnaj_springer » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:59 am

She doesn't want a spaniel?! Maybe a divorce is in order! I kid, of course.
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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by Meskousing » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:24 pm

American Water Spaniel. They will chase anything and can be trained as a spaniel or retriever. They're great for waterfowl and upland. They'll also turn heads and give your an excuse to talk about your dog to other hunters.

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by DonF » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:16 pm

Have you considered a new wife? :-) Bet you could train one of the pointing breeds to point rabbits!
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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by polmaise » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:19 pm

Jared77 wrote:Hello,

For me "it's Tuesday I've got a few hours let's get after them".

.
Whilst I appreciate your circumstances I do not . In respect.

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by Jared77 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:15 am

The issue and I should have said this before is most spaniels are "too small". She grew up with Bernese Mt Dogs. So to her a retriever is a "medium sized dog" and spaniels are "small dogs". Just a matter of perspective and one I respect. Knowing this I would gladly have a other field bred Golden no questions asked. He's been a fantastic dog and I'm a big fan of the breed.

That being said I have been occasionally kicking around the thought of going with a smaller dog than my field bred Golden. I really like the spaniels style and how they move though the thickest tangles so easily. It may not happen and another Golden would a great choice again.

Knowing how she feels is why I asked about training my next field bred Golden to flush rabbits as well as upland birds.

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by llewellinsetter » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:51 am

My longhair pointer will point, flush , and retrieve rabbits. The pointers will do what you want the training is just different.
My brother hunts rabbits with his GWP and he says he won't ever go back to a spaniel.

Just my two cents.
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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by Sharon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:40 pm

Jared77 wrote:The issue and I should have said this before is most spaniels are "too small". She grew up with Bernese Mt Dogs. So to her a retriever is a "medium sized dog" and spaniels are "small dogs". Just a matter of perspective and one I respect. Knowing this I would gladly have a other field bred Golden no questions asked. He's been a fantastic dog and I'm a big fan of the breed.

That being said I have been occasionally kicking around the thought of going with a smaller dog than my field bred Golden. I really like the spaniels style and how they move though the thickest tangles so easily. It may not happen and another Golden would a great choice again.

Knowing how she feels is why I asked about training my next field bred Golden to flush rabbits as well as upland birds.

You're a good man ; we're just teasing you on here. :) Whatever you want, show her the pups at 8 weeks and she'll love that breed. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by Trekmoor » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:33 pm

30 years ago I was doing rabbit control with a Brittany that had also won field trials. Pointing dogs tend to point any kind of fur and feather that you show the dog is of interest to you. I have met men in Scotland who have pointers to point dead bats ! (it's done to discover how many bats are being killed by windfarms and to count how many of those bats are from the continent and have rabies.) I've also heard of pointing dogs being used to find hedgehogs on a Scottish island where they are decimating the eggs of ground nesting birds.

Any breed of pointing dog will point rabbits especially if you have praised the dog for pointing them.

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by polmaise » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:55 pm

Jared77 wrote:The issue and I should have said this before is most spaniels are "too small". She grew up with Bernese Mt Dogs. So to her a retriever is a "medium sized dog" and spaniels are "small dogs". Just a matter of perspective and one I respect. Knowing this I would gladly have a other field bred Golden no questions asked. He's been a fantastic dog and I'm a big fan of the breed.

That being said I have been occasionally kicking around the thought of going with a smaller dog than my field bred Golden. I really like the spaniels style and how they move though the thickest tangles so easily. It may not happen and another Golden would a great choice again.

Knowing how she feels is why I asked about training my next field bred Golden to flush rabbits as well as upland birds.
Let her pick the dog ..then Train it to do what You want .
heck, we had a 'Teckle ' at Gundog Training class last week . :lol:

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Re: Non-spaniel flushers for rabbits

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:04 pm

If your wife likes big dogs, the Bracco is supposed to be able to hunt fur. They can easily be trained to hunt closer and they will blood trail. They make a good house dog, too.

In my family, the gun dog is not allowed to notice rabbits. I've got an Australian Shepherd who makes the rabbits' life a misery. He can really hunt rabbits and it would take nothing to train him to whoa for the shoot. He'd hunt birds, too, if you asked him to hunt birds. If you are capable of explaining what you want, he will do it.

My sight hounds, who are supposed to only run coyotes, will pick up rabbits. You don't get to shoot the rabbit because the dog scoops them up on the fly and delivers them live into your hand. If you want rabbits, they will get you rabbits. In no way could they be trained to hunt birds, unless you want the bird snatched out of the air.

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