Is this creeping??

[Agross]

Have a question. I had my 3 yr old gsp out on some preserve birds (chukar) this past weekend. This a dog I basically trained myself with some Navhda help. A hunting dog companion only type of dog as I am not into competitions.

I understand that he is supposed to stop and point on first scent so my question is geared toward that. When hunting at the preserve he was running good and would point at first scent, from his appearance of seeming to smell the air or quick change of head direction. Once on point he will stay pointing allowing me to walk from behind him out in front of him 20 yards or so kicking the grass looking to flush the bird. He doesn't break or move. I can walk a complete circle around him and I try to continually mix up my movement so as not to get into any routine. I will come back to him when needed and can release him with a tap on the head or just say okay without the tap and he will release.

My question is am I causing bad habits? On a couple of occasions, he must have pointed the bird from about 40 plus yards with a good wind. He would point and stay there as I would walk out in front of him, kicking the grass (low switch grass / golden rod field stuff) making a circle going back and forth looking for the bird but I could not find the bird. I would then release him whispering "okay" at which point he would continue on moving toward the bird in a slow deliberate stalking type of movement moving up about 7 to 10 yards and then again come to a staunch point. At that point we were closer to the bird. He would stay on point and I was able to walk past him do my circle or back and forth pattern, get the bird to flush and shoot with him at times 10 to 15 yards behind me.

When I release him speaking in a whisper voice he quietly sneaks forward and I guess relocates, more for me than him because I cannot find the bird. Is this routine a problem?? Will this turn into creeping or crowding a wild bird??? What is the alternative, have him stay on point at first scent and then me continuing to walk the grass no matter how far out, in a back and forth fan pattern into the wind until i flush the bird even if it is 40 or 50 yards out?

He was pretty good being steady to wing shot and fall last year. But lack of practice had him initially breaking on flush but by the end of the day he stood his ground where he pointed, let me walk out flush the bird, shoot and then turn to him behind me and yell "Okay Jango" and he would go retrieve.

Any advice would be appreciated. And again I am not looking for perfection and his is companion and hunting buddy more than anything. His primary wild birds are grouse and woodcock. I

[shags]

I wouldn't call that creeping because you released him and asked for a relocation. To me, creeping is moving forward on point without having been released.
It seems like your dog has a long nose and is nice and cautious moving up.
As to whether you're creating a bad habit, I wouldn't want to relocate on a lot of birds. To avoid it, you can read your dog and push him up before you go in to flush. That way, if he pushes out the bird, you can correct and he will learn about crowding. Usually, there are differences if intensity that signal whether the dog has the bird for sure or not. Watch his eyes, ears, tail, and general tightness. If he seems a little loose before you go in to flush, use your relocate command. once he's tight, go in to flush.
I couldn't tell for sure, but from something you said, it sounds like you might be coming in to flush from behind your dog? IME it's better to come in from the side - from the back seems to make dogs want to move up, too.

Sounds like you have done a nice job with a good dog

[Sharon]

All sounds good to me Agross (That shouldn't lead to creeping.) Well done!

[bonasa]

Not creeping, a smart dog understands the smell of different gamebirds in regards to situations, but this comes from development. Most of my dogs poit woodcock at 3-10 yards and grouse at 10-15 yards. At times a woodcock will lift 25 yards ahead of the dog, those little things do run. Also many times grouse will flush 20 yards behind the dog and to the left, again another runner.

As far as relocating, if your dog requires relocating and waits for it on grouse, I think that is a plus. Hunt the dog and as log as that he is pointing when the bird flushes, Shoot it! Shoot as many as you can, also take your time getting to the point and kill as many birds as you can off points this year.

[tailcracken pointer]

That is a staunch and awesome dog !! My best dog I ever had wouldn't move unless I released him , I would say ok or tap him on his head you are the very few out there that has a good dog like that I hate to say that but most have junk and mine are junk to man I wish I had that dog still he was dynamite on birds , leave that dog alone you have a dandy!!! im envious

[DonF]

Lot of people do what yur doing and works fine. Word of caution though, If your walking right past your dog on a point, good chance you'll start pulling him, he moves with you. Circle around and come from the front.