English setter won't point

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Dlmino21
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English setter won't point

Post by Dlmino21 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:00 am

lookong for some advice with training my 10 month old setter. This is my first time trying to train a bird dog and I just started working with pigeons and a launcher this week. I've probably used 20 birds over the last 4 or 5 days. This is his first exposure to birds in the field. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but he has not pointed any of the birds I planted for him. He is very excited about birds and chases them hard. He seems like he knows what he's looking for, but shows no signs of pointing. I've been launching the birds when he smells them and continues to move in. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Or something I can do different to get him pointing? Or am I expecting too much at this point. Any advice is appreciated, thank you.

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Urban_Redneck
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Re: English setter won't point

Post by Urban_Redneck » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:03 pm

I don't know much myself (that won't stop me), but, you might be overloading the dog with 4 or 5 birds. Back off to one or two birds a session so he can process what happened.

My $0.02

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bonasa
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Re: English setter won't point

Post by bonasa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:13 pm

Is he gun broke yet? If not start with a blank and move up to a shotgun when he chases. Once you have that complete, stop what you are doing and get your dog on a proven program. The popular programs have many followers on this board and if you has trouble on a specific process, ask away. Breaking a dog isn't difficult while following a program, you and your dog will be fine.

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Re: English setter won't point

Post by Dakotazeb » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:26 pm

If you don't launch the birds when he moves in what will he do? Try a check cord to "whoa" him when he gets close.
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Dlmino21
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Re: English setter won't point

Post by Dlmino21 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:35 pm

Thanks for the advice. What are a couple good programs?

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Dlmino21
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Re: English setter won't point

Post by Dlmino21 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:38 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:If you don't launch the birds when he moves in what will he do? Try a check cord to "whoa" him when he gets close.
When I let him move in he just keeps going until he's right on top of the launcher. I can give the check cord a try

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Re: English setter won't point

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:54 pm

"Training with MO" by Martha Greenlee is about as good as it gets.

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Re: English setter won't point

Post by bonasa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:26 pm


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DonF
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Re: English setter won't point

Post by DonF » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:20 pm

You said you have launcher's, remote? Is so it's easy. Bring your dog in cross wind to the bird, you need to know where the bird is and direction of the wind. If you can't tell wind direction, carry a small jar of baby powder and sprinkle some, at the bird site, and then you should see the wind. Bic lighter will let you know also. When you bring in your dog and it's coming into the scent cone, pop the bird. Do not wait to see if it will point! Very important. If the dog is ready, it will notice the bird at least. If it pays no attention, go on with your walk, the dog has done nothing wrong. I think Gertie was about 4 mos when I met her. Not interested in birds at all. Couple weeks later it all turned around nd today she's a fine dog! Dog has to be ready.

The secrete to popping the trap early is get the dog to understand that it's it's own movement flushing the bird. Even after your dog starts noticing the bird, keep popping early. What your looking for is your dog pointing before you can pop the bird, and in time it will. You don't not have to teach your dog what you want rather why the birds are flying on him. You and him bth want the same thing, let him learn!

Had a guy two or three years ago bring over a GSP that was given to him by a shooting preserve. He was told the dog had to much prey drive and would not point. Well eight birds after he got here his dog was slamming point's. The dog want's the same thing you do, the bird! Bye the way. This is a keep your mouth shut drill no matter what happens!
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tekoa
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Re: English setter won't point

Post by tekoa » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:11 pm

I've used George Hickox's Pointing Dog Training and Jon Hann's Perfect Start on 6 dogs with great success. Both systems work well to teach point but are very different. I'd pick the one that seems to suit you and your dog the best. The Hickox method uses fewer birds and more launcher work; Hann's method uses more birds,takes a bit longer, uses less launcher work and works best if you use homers.

Both Methods involve having young dogs chase birds, either tossed or launched or planted until they realize they can't catch them and start to point.

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Re: English setter won't point

Post by Spyro » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:55 pm

Dlmino21 wrote:lookong for some advice with training my 10 month old setter. This is my first time trying to train a bird dog and I just started working with pigeons and a launcher this week. I've probably used 20 birds over the last 4 or 5 days. This is his first exposure to birds in the field. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but he has not pointed any of the birds I planted for him. He is very excited about birds and chases them hard. He seems like he knows what he's looking for, but shows no signs of pointing. I've been launching the birds when he smells them and continues to move in. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Or something I can do different to get him pointing? Or am I expecting too much at this point. Any advice is appreciated, thank you.
It think that following a program is great and there are a number of good ones but you just don't want a dog that just points. You want a bird dog. I can teach your neighbor's Yorkie to point in a couple of weeks but I'll never turn it into a bird dog.

Your dog was selectively bred over hundreds of years to be a gun dog. Trust your dog's dna. You want to develop drive and, when you think youve done it enough, do it a little more. Let him chase birds (don't let him catch). Let him try to play the game on his own for a while and then gently guide him into success.

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greg jacobs
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Re: English setter won't point

Post by greg jacobs » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:52 pm

Perfect start perfect finish dvd's. Just put up for sale by dbass. Better grab them

Living water
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Re: English setter won't point

Post by Living water » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:19 pm

You don't teach a dog to point... they just do it. What kind of birds are you using ? Maybe the dog doest recognize it as a game bird. My dog wouldn't point pigeons until one was killed for him, same with woodcock ..

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Re: English setter won't point

Post by setterpoint » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:57 pm

i know some will not agree with this.but have you tried the wing on a string to see if the dog will point if you havent i would try this just dont let the dog catch the wing as soon as the dog points then you know the dog will at least point then stop and put the dog back on birds remember when you see the dog will point put it up and bont do no more

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Re: English setter won't point

Post by mnaj_springer » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:22 am

setterpoint wrote:i know some will not agree with this.but have you tried the wing on a string to see if the dog will point if you havent i would try this just dont let the dog catch the wing as soon as the dog points then you know the dog will at least point then stop and put the dog back on birds remember when you see the dog will point put it up and bont do no more
I'm not saying you're wrong but my pointer had no interest in this game. But she points birds in training and while hunting. To her it's not the same.
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Spyro
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Re: English setter won't point

Post by Spyro » Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:05 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
setterpoint wrote:i know some will not agree with this.but have you tried the wing on a string to see if the dog will point if you havent i would try this just dont let the dog catch the wing as soon as the dog points then you know the dog will at least point then stop and put the dog back on birds remember when you see the dog will point put it up and bont do no more
I'm not saying you're wrong but my pointer had no interest in this game. But she points birds in training and while hunting. To her it's not the same.
Some of my dogs with the highest drives never played the "wing on the string" game very well.

To them, pointing didn't seem like a good idea until I started rewarding them with a dropped bird. It was almost like treat training for pointing. Once they understood the trigger behavior, it was easy to lengthen the time of point prior to a less frequent reward of a dropped bird.

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Re: English setter won't point

Post by setterpoint » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:35 pm

he said his dog would not point . i thought worth a try iv had pups point it right off some needed a few times never had one that would not point it ..but dont over do it you dont want the dog sight pointing to much

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