Need suggestion for introducing birds

[Dude]

I'll be getting some quail in the next week or so from a fellow and was wanting to ask for suggestions as to how introduce my dog to the birds. She is five months old and has not seen a live quail yet. She has pointed some wings in the past but I kind of quit doing that since it was just sight pointing. This will be just a one time introduction and any left over will be dinner after the training session is over. Should I just hold one in my hand and let her smell it and then plant it in the field, or should I plant them first and let her find them on her own? Should I clip some flight feathers or use a harness on them? This will be a first for both the dog and myself. I am all ears, let me know your opinions. I just want to learn (and so does my dog!).

Thanks

[Thor]

I have in the past led my pup by the area I am stroing the birds. They will perk up and agressivly start work the air with their nose. After I did that I stake the pup out on the edge of the field. Then I plant the birds. I don't recommend using any restraint on the first outing. I have always felt I wanted that bird to be able to get away if pup doesn't do everything right. That is the key, before you shoot a bird for your pup, you must have intro. to shooting. Then you have to set up a regiment for the pup to follow. So if you don't want to release quial to woods if pup doesn't work him properly I suggest using pigeons till she is holding her points good. Hope I helped. Curious on she does.

[topher40]

Take the bird out and plant it. Then lead the dog into it and let the dog do whatever it wants with that bird! Chase it, catch it, Kill it, stand staunch and look confused. You cant go wrong with a pup as long as you are getting it into birds! Just make sure they are quail and keep it fun, no yelling just keep quiet and let the pup have fun!

[birddog]

Take the bird out and plant it. Then lead the dog into it and let the dog do whatever it wants with that bird! Chase it, catch it, Kill it, stand staunch and look confused. You cant go wrong with a pup as long as you are getting it into birds! Just make sure they are quail and keep it fun, no yelling just keep quiet and let the pup have fun!

I haven't been on the board for a while and I see a lot of new posters.

My suggestion would be to seek more advice before you use the advice from this poster. You could be setting your dog up for a bad experience if he/she has never been exposed to birds as you state.

As far as using quail. If you make a mistake in starting to train your dog with quail he/she just might shy away from quail if not introduced to birds properly. Start with a non game bird such as pigeons. You don't hunt pigeons and if something unforseen should happen during training, it would not hurt when you switch to game birds.. Use a game bird, make a mistake and your pup just might be turned off of that bird.

JMO,
Janet

[smilinicon]

the only thing two trainers will agree on is what a third trainer is doing wrong.

[ezzy333]

Janet,

What kind of a mistake can you make letting a pup find a quail? I've had my 8 and 10 week old puppies doing this exact thing. Kind of cute seeing a little puppy find a quail and then carry it around for a bit. And it does get them enthused.

Ezzy

[birdogg42]

I am with you ezzy.

[snips]

I have seen many more pups scared by a pigeon than a quail getting up. I go with lightly dizzying a couple of quail and throwing them in cover, go back and release the pup, I would not put anything on him, just let him find the birds and go after them. It does not hurt to let the pup get a wiff of it before you go plant it. Just don't let it flap him in the face. I like to pull a few feathers out and let pup have them. Do not shoot anything until the pup is confident around the birds and boldly chasing them. I like to give them at least a couple of weeks of bird exposure before firing a blank...Have fun

[Dude]

Thanks for the replys. I hoping to start this coming weekend.

Dude

[Wagonmaster]

A five month old is not going to be spooked by a quail. They are the right bird to use for a young dog.

To the above advice, let me add be patient. Your dog might or might not know what a bird is the first time it makes contact. It might or might not know what the smell is. It might or might not take several times before the dog gets excited about the bird and wants to give chase. At five months you have all the time in the world.

I have seen young pups point the very first bird they have ever encountered, at 8 or 10 weeks, like champs. And have seen them take a dozen or so bird encounters to even get started. They will both make bird dogs if you are patient and just keep at it.

Also, do not shout or raise your voice. Best not to say anything at all. It does not hurt to give a little encouragement when pup finds and knocks a bird, but keep it down. Good boy, good boy. No GOOOOD BOY!!!! GOOD BOY!!!!! The poor pup does not understand English at this point, but it does understand shouting means something bad.

Keep everything between the pup and the bird at this stage, your only purpose for being there is to guide the pup to the right area. Start to develop soft hands.

[littleriver]

I haven't stopped in at this forum yet. As a matter of fact I was here for an entirely different reason but I decided to look at a training post. I only looked at one and this is it. It didn't take me long to see nothing has changed on the boards. 25 years of training both field trial and gundogs and one of the few consistancies I have found, it doesn't matter which forum you belong to, everything always stays the same. LOL.....These boards can be a great tool, it's too bad they are mainly used the exact opposite of how they were intended. As far as introducing your young dog to birds, as long as you don't do something to scare the heck out of him like set off an atomic bomb, he probably isn't going to know you are alive. If he is a bird dog and has any natural desire bred into him he won't anyway. I have read about a half dozen different opinions on this topic and all have some validity to some degree but the fact is, if this gentleman is already trying not to make mistakes in early training issues, he better have a dog on his hands with a lot of natural ability or he is going to be over his head on the training issues anyway. Son, if your dog is worth his weight in dog food you will be fine. Just go out and have fun and don't over analyze everything when it comes to dogs. Just remember, for the most part they are one heck of a lot smarter when it comes to finding birds in the field then we are and no one explained to them how to introduce us to the birds. LOL. The point is have fun and don't worry, it will be fine.

[birddog]

I haven't stopped in at this forum yet. As a matter of fact I was here for an entirely different reason but I decided to look at a training post. I only looked at one and this is it. It didn't take me long to see nothing has changed on the boards. 25 years of training both field trial and gundogs and one of the few consistancies I have found, it doesn't matter which forum you belong to, everything always stays the same. LOL.....These boards can be a great tool, it's too bad they are mainly used the exact opposite of how they were intended. I have read about a half dozen different opinions on this topic and all have some validity to some degree but the fact is, if this gentleman is already trying not to make mistakes in early training issues, he better have a dog on his hands with a lot of natural ability or he is going to be over his head on the training issues anyway.

It has been said variety is the spice of life. So it goes with training a hunting dog. A poster asks a question and several different methods are mentioned by those who have and think they have enough experience to give suggestions. The poster then must decide which method will help him best to get the results he is seaking.

True, a 5 month old puppy should not have a problem with the first time flush of a small quail. As Snips said, a quail is less likely to scare a 5 month old then the flush of a pigeon. My concern was without smelling the bird, pigeon, quail or what ever bird you choose to use, before you start your planting, could, with a bad experience, cause the pup when scenting that bird again, to react and start blinking the bird you used. If it is a quail, and that pup was startled in some way, due to the bird or mishandling, the pup, as soon as it gets a whiff of that scent again, may blink. That is why I suggest to use a non game bird for the pups first experience with planted bird contact. As mentioned earlier, you don't hunt pigeons, so no harm done should a mistake happen. I am not suggesting not to train your pup on wild birds. There is nothing better to develop a bird dog then exposesure to wild birds, but when you start planting, I still advise to get the pup excited with a pigeon first and go from there.

Janet

[Thor]

That is right on. My brother sent one of his many GWP's off to a pro. Everything was going well at the 1 month checkin. 2 months into the training, he was as steady as they come. At some point in between 2 and 3 months he began blinking quail. The dog is now coming 4 years of age and still blinks planted quail. If you use him to clean the fields after a trial he puts on a clinic. Points and handles wild rooster phez, sharptails, huns, chukar and even wild quail with extreme intesity. So it goes along way with me anyways, to start a pup on a bird that you will not be hunting incase some "demons" are developed. As for my own experiences, I train dogs for people to be wild phez dogs. I train on my family ranch with wild birds. Hard to set the pups up for success until you have worked them on pigeons/quail for the first month. I learned the hard way with of my own pups. He went out and found his first phez, pointed it then jumped in to make the flush (excited first timer). When the bird exploded from the cover, it scared the crap out of him. He ran back and was hiding behind me. It took alot of work, but I got him back and he is doing fine now. That is why I start with pigeons and with the pups confidence I progress on. As far as letting them catch birds, I feel that is potentially opening up another can of worms.

[h20fwlkillr]

I would never, ever put a pup I was training in position to catch a planted bird. If the pup learns he can catch a planted bird, he will think he can catch wild ones. It will be a major chore to get dog to hold point later on.

[volraider]

topher40 good post. Let the pup do whatever he wants with the bird.

[Devils Creek]

I would never, ever put a pup I was training in position to catch a planted bird. If the pup learns he can catch a planted bird, he will think he can catch wild ones. It will be a major chore to get dog to hold point later on.

Well then, start on wild birds.

I let them have a ball and tear it up the first year. Now I've been training mainly field trial pointers for the past 35 years, and I don't have any worries about them being afraid of birds. I'll try and get them on as many wild birds as possible in their first season, and I don't give a darn whether I shoot a bird or not.

Dogs have to learn how to hunt and WHERE to hunt. You cannot teach this, he has to learn it on his own. Some dogs may never figure it out properly.

Why waste a year teaching a dog to point, that may never have the potential to hunt properly.

Your dog will tell you when he's ready to be broke. At that point it gets easy.

Yes I use pigeons and liberated birds a bunch BUT for teaching steady to Wing and Shot, and backing. I may not show a dog tame birds till he's 12-14 months.

Oh and by the way, they'll all catch a bird sooner or later....it'll just fire them up some more.

[Wagonmaster]

Ditto.

Only difference between us is that I can no longer walk out the door and put the pups on wild birds because of development where I live, so I make do with pen raised and preserve birds until I can get them on the real thing, which is as quickly and as much as possible.