Young Dog , Inexperienced upland hunter .. Shooting non poin

[okie_birdhunter]

My SM is 11 months old, I've took him hunting 4 or 5 times since November each time killing 6-12 birds. The first couple times got 5 or so points on coveys ( usually 3 of us hunting, 10 bird limit ). No single bird points.
I chalked it up to being hot and dry the first couple hunts ( before first freeze) , bad scenting conditions.
The last hunt with good conditions I didn't get a single point.
His range is close working so when birds get up they are usually in range and we shoot.
Have I ruined my pointer is my question?



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[pooch897]

I'm in the same boat with my Brittany. And a trainer that's gonna help me train said to keep his bird drive up and keep hunting him.


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[tekoa]

Pooch, Okie

I'm not a pro and this is just my opinion based on experience.

I made the same mistake with my first Setter, since then I've had 11 Setters that all were steady on point by 8 months and remained steady their whole lives . Two were FCs.

While it's true that more birds is almost always the solution to bird dog problems, the approach of shooting more birds over dogs that are chasing birds will produce a good flushing dog, but it probably won't produce a steady pointing dog.

The usual and more successful approach is to let the dog chase birds and then, under controlled conditions (Planted, Launched), locate birds by scent. Once he discovers that he cannot catch flying birds he will exhibit his natural instinct to stalk and eventually stop (point)during the stalk before the birds fly.

If you shoot birds he has not pointed and then allow him to retrieve shot birds he'll know that chasing birds allows him to catch them and he has no need to point. He needs to know that the only way he can get a bird is to find it's scent, point, until you shoot ( or until you tell him to retrieve) and then and only then does he get the bird.

Since you have already let the dogs chase and catch birds ( in the form of retrieving) I would continue to hunt (just you and the dog, sounds like you've got access to wild birds) but not shoot any birds that are not pointed. After the season, I'd return to the training field and start pointing training from the beginning and not shoot any birds until the dogs are pointing.

You might want to follow one of the great trainers training systems, like Hickox, or Hann, or Smith to help you avoid mistakes in producing a steady pointing dog...............

P.S. Nothing wrong with a flushing dog.............. I've seen several SMs that were very good flushers. I've never seen a Brittany that was trained as a flusher, probably because they'd be a couple hundred yards away when put up birds........

Good Luck................

[zrp]

Those Oklahoma public land quail are tough this time of year. Don't be too discouraged. It may be the bird's behavior has changed from the pressure more than the dog's.

[ohmymy111]

I have a different attitude than most people. The first, what I consider real, hunting season, I don't care if my dogs ever point a bird and bust every bird. If they find a bird I shoot it. If it is just a wild flush, I will let them chase it, but not shoot it, as it is their job to find it, so if they don't find it themselves, no reward, which is the retrieve.

It is ALL about drive and passion in the field. If you look at AKC Field Trial format, puppy stakes, up to 15 months old, they don't even put a bird out all about run. Derby stakes, until they are 2 years old, they only have to point for a short period of time, again all about run, and now mix in bird finding.

Here is the way I see it. If a dog doesn't have drive in the field, it probably won't really find birds. If it doesn't find birds, it can't point them. If it doesn't point them, you can't shoot them. If you can't shoot them, then there will be no retrieve. That is the order I put things in as far as importance.

[slistoe]

I have a different attitude than most people. The first, what I consider real, hunting season, I don't care if my dogs ever point a bird and bust every bird. If they find a bird I shoot it. If it is just a wild flush, I will let them chase it, but not shoot it, as it is their job to find it, so if they don't find it themselves, no reward, which is the retrieve.

It is ALL about drive and passion in the field. If you look at AKC Field Trial format, puppy stakes, up to 15 months old, they don't even put a bird out all about run. Derby stakes, until they are 2 years old, they only have to point for a short period of time, again all about run, and now mix in bird finding.

Here is the way I see it. If a dog doesn't have drive in the field, it probably won't really find birds. If it doesn't find birds, it can't point them. If it doesn't point them, you can't shoot them. If you can't shoot them, then there will be no retrieve. That is the order I put things in as far as importance.

Seems a reasonable attitude to me. My goal is always to be able to shoot some birds for a young dog in their first season - even a wild flush, but reality is that I am often not in range when they do find them. And that is OK with me.

The dogs job is to find birds. If the dog doesn't know how to find birds anything else he may do is quite pointless. Once the dog absolutely LOVES to find birds, and is proficient at it, then we will worry about the "rules" of the game.