Gun Dog Forum

Hello to the forum:

I have a 5 year old Cheseapeake who is an excellent retriever and upland dog... I trained her myself, my first such venture. I am due for another Cheseapeake puppy in June and I could use some thoughts about training one gun dog when another older dog is present. I live in a fairly ideal situation, here in NE Montana on 20 acres that I have planted in bird habitat so the dogs see pheasants daily and have lots of room.

thanks,

-pete council

Bad idea IMO. I took my younger dog out with my other two almost daily. Didn't realize till hunting season that he had no confidence being alone. Took quite a few trips to get him working well.

He also caused my older dogs to break point. The older dogs are not finished, and when the younger dog comes in trying to get the bird, they break.

No more training or hunting for mine together, at least till they're finished.

Welcome to the forum.
2 positions mainly on this subject:

#1 Don't work them together or the pup will not learn independence
#2Work them together so pup can learn from the more experienced dog.

I go with #1 until pup is around a year old.

If You only have 30 minutes to take the two dogs out for whatever'''''.....then it would be better to take each one out for 15 minutes each .
You haven't lost any time and each one has gained more .

You don't get this picture by taking them all at one time . You only get it by taking them one at a time ..then all together . Is my advice . But Hey' If any one thinks an Older dog can teach a Younger dog then Yes ..they can ! ...Usually it's all the stuff You don't want with the new dog .

I would also suggest working your pup alone. I wouldn't work the two together until the younger dog is confident and doing exactly what you want in the field. I think there is a great probability of doing harm than good if working them together. I just don't buy into the theory that the younger dog learns from the older dog. If the younger dog has the breeding he will figure it out. Obviously your older dog didn't need a dog to show him what and how to do it when he was young.

I've tried to do this twice myself, have watched friends and relatives try it. The dogs were GSPs, Setters, and Chessies.

I tried running a female pup with a 10 year old male Setter with almost tragic consequences. The old dog,the sweetest, gentlest dog I've ever seen, ignored the pup in the yard and house but when we went to the field became a territorial, dominating terror when the pup was with him. After about three tries at running them together the old dog located some quail, when the pup barged in and bumped the birds the old dog tried to kill the pup.

After 26 stitches I decided to separate them for any field exercise. When the pup was one yo and by now big, fast, strong and confident, I ran them together. In the bird fields, the old dog tried to run the pup off, the pup kicked the old dogs "bleep" before I could break it up and, having reestablished the order of dominance, took off to hunt together.

Second time, I tried keeping the old dog (the pup in the previous story) and the new pup apart but they were inseparable, They played together, slept together, trained together, hunted like they were telepathic. The down side, when the old girl died the pup, now 4 yo was depressed for about 3 months.

My own experience and observations of the other old/young dog training efforts are that as others have said above, it's much more likely that running and training dog together in the pups first year will be bad for both dogs than it is that either dog will benefit from the experience.

I've also observed that it seems a lot easier for the pup to bond to you and see you as pack leader if he spends his first months of training alone with you. This seems especially true of the Chessies I've seen.

edit to my previous post: I have found though that a young dog can learn a lot from an older dog when it comes to HOUNDS.

I found that pups can and do learn a lot from an older dog. And it is up to the trainer to use a dog you want the pup to learn from but then to also know when the pup needs to have it's own time. Most need personal attention for a lot of the training but a good older dog can sure help getting them started but is not necessary by any means and can be a detriment if not controlled.

I currently have three Golden Retrievers, ranging from 12 to 4. I trained them all through their initial puppy obedience in a puppy class with other puppies, with a trainer we have used for years. I did all field training alone with one dog, although at times I may have one other dog working on holding 'study' while the other dog worked. After the dog training was at a SH level, I then would hunt with any combination of dogs together. SH level means a 'finished' Retriever...Marking, study, deliver to hand, handles for blind falls, etc.

It seem to work well...

Good Luck

get your pup birdy first let him know there are birds out there and you want have no trouble the dogs breeding should over ride another dog in the field but you still will need to run your pup alone some so pup will not depend on older dog so much

Sharon wrote:edit to my previous post: I have found though that a young dog can learn a lot from an older dog when it comes to HOUNDS.

I was going to say this sounds a bit like beagle training.

gundogguy wrote:

Sharon wrote:edit to my previous post: I have found though that a young dog can learn a lot from an older dog when it comes to HOUNDS.

I was going to say this sounds a bit like beagle training.

'Coupling' serves one purpose ...The younger one can't do anything wrong . As a result it can't do anything else.
It serves a purpose in Pack formation ,but it doesn't teach a Hound to Hunt and it doesn't teach a Retriever to retrieve and it doesn't teach a retriever to deliver to hand and it certainly doesn't teach a spaniel to flush . ...The older dog doesn't teach the Younger dog Hounds included to be a Hound or any other breed .
The Handler/Trainer does that bit . He/she can use the 'pack' for group coupling ..that's it ! (imo) ...as a ps to this . A good 'Houndsman' will never couple an older dog who stops to pee on old rabbit droppings ..that would be teaching the Younger one the same ??

It is useful though in that the older hound will put up a rabbit and the younger one will say , "Oh, that's what we're after." Also useful in teaching back tracking etc..

thanks to all for your input