2 Year Old Stopped Water Retrieving

[mizenkoj]

I have a two year old small munsterlander who, out of nowhere, all of a sudden stopped water retrieving. He's been solid on all types of retrieval work, land, water, blind, doubles, etc., since I conditioned retrieved him at about 14 months. What could be the cause of this?

Here's some background that might help:
-toe injury two weeks ago. Rear middle toe tore out half way from bed. Toe nail damaged as a result of getting stuck between some rocks in the Black Hills. Put him under to have toe nail completely removed. Had his OFA hip evaluation done at same time. He swam the day of the toe injury retrieving doeken pheasant with the bad toe. I am wondering if this may have impacted him and be the cause. The retrieve was in heavy cover and it took him quite some time. He had to swim over two downed trees that were floating in the water in reeds to make the retrieve. He's never had such a rough request. I'm feeling like I may be the root cause as are all his shortcomings.
-Could this be the beginning of the hormonal terrible twos rearing it's ugly head. Joan Bailey talks about this in her book, "How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves", in Appendix A, "The Awkward Age-This too shall pass".....?
-What about a combination of the two thoughts above?

He's not been asked to retrieve since the toe injury day and retrieve. Just the last two failed efforts yesterday and today.

If the toe is the issue(or my request that day), the quik is still exposed and the toe hasn't begun to grow back. What suggestion(s) do you have for my situation. I don't want to reinforce failed retrieval work. I also want to continue to work him towards duck season this winter. Maybe I should just stick to a progression on land until the toe heals. He's doing fine on land.

Cedar has only hunted upland to this point due to my slow maturation process into bird hunting. I only had the funds to pursue upland game these last two seasons. I wanted to move towards new horizons this coming season.

Thoughts.... I'm a first time dog trainer and have done incredibly well thus far... This one has me stumped.

Thanks for your insights in advance....!

[gonehuntin']

Perhaps this will help. I currently have the same problem. I have a phenomenal 12 month old DD pup that will be tested in a week or so. She is great in everything but this spring won't retrieve from water. She will swim and lunge all day, get to the bumper, flip me the paw and return. What happened was that I ff'd her over the winter and our water is just now warm enough to train in. Therefore she was collar broken, ff'd, obedience trained, force to pile BUT because of the temp, I could never force her to a pile in the water. Now it's warm enough and I am. Things are progressing very fast and today she was nearly perfect. I will NOT ff a dog in cold water because I don't want them getting a bad impression of it.

In my opinion what happens is that the dog simply thinks it's safe in the water, that you can't get it. It WANTS to retrieve but won't just because it thinks it can get away with it. It is a very common problem if ff does not include water force. Also very easy to correct. This is where spinners can be created so do not let the pup get to the edge of the water and spin around. Have a rope on him.

[Featherfinder]

Gonehuntin', I'm with you. I keep dogs, especially young dogs away from frigid water for obvious reasons especially since our winters are colder than a mother-in-law's kiss!
The resolve as suggested by Gonehuntin' makes sense too, as long as your dog is entering the water but failing the retrieve. If your dog is not entering the water you may need a slightly diverse initial step or two.
There is no doubt that the toe situation has had some impact. To what extent no-one can say however dogs speak in body language. It's human nature to over-analyze these things on occasion. Any reticence conveyed by you (intentionally or unintentionally) in this process could contribute to his sub-standard performance. Get your head around this after time has heeled the toe, then it's time to address the concern with confidence. As such, I suggest you let his toe heel properly before dealing with a resolve. At that juncture, I like what Gonehuntin' suggested about the progressive trained retrieve starting in shallow water for starters.
Can you swim?

[Timewise65]

As a retriever guy I have seen more than one 'water dog' balk at the water around that age. They are 'teenagers' and will like most people at that equivalent age, go a bit crazy, some more than others. I hope this is you case also, just stay with the training and keep it fun and challenging for the pup. If two years equals 7 of our years, your 14 year old will grow out of it before he hits 21..or one more year!

But, I agree the toe issue may be at the heart of this behavior, but regardless you still would just train through it....

Good Luck

[mizenkoj]

Thanks Gonehuntin and Featherfinder. I will take both of your input into consideration as I proceed, and after the toe has healed. Toe has just begun to show signs that the nail will grow back.

I had never even considered ff in water. Great idea!! Cedar scored pz2 in his NA test due to water(lacked cooperation). I tested right at 12 months and he was in his second stage of fear. Oops.... Add to that an unfamiliar testing water hole that he couldn't see the bottom on and he needed more than a few bumpers to get in, plus some cheer-leading. He did swim and retrieve irregardless.

He continued on after that with strong with solid retrieves all summer.

Featherfinder, yes I can swim. In fact, last season that was the key to his continued success and confidence building. I swam with him across several large ponds and a small lake. That really helped. His bond with me is strong and I used it with water, just like I used food/treat when he was a pup.

Love the reminder on watching the dog language and my non-verbal body language as well. When I proceed it will be with confidence and by reasonable progression.

Gonehuntin', have fun with your testing!

[doglovers]

What training program are you following?

http://www.irishdogs.ie/articles/top-10 ... puppy.html