Training Going Backwards..

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Maniac01
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Training Going Backwards..

Post by Maniac01 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:41 pm

Since my Brittany was 11 weeks old, she pointed at the pheasant wing when doing the wing and string training. She was a natural.
We didn't play that for about 3 weeks now and she goes into chase mode with the wing and won't point and hold. She is now 5 1/2 months old. She is well exercised and a great dog.

First, I will hold the wing up so she can't get it for a minute or so, then when she tires out a bit I'll slowly lower it. She may creep toward it for a step or two with a brief pause, then she sprints/jumps at it...
I'll try that for maybe 6 or so unsuccesful attempts, then I'll put it away and will try it a little later with the same results. When I take her outside and there are birds or rabbits in the yard, she will point and hold for about 15-30 seconds, then she takes off after them..

Any advice?

She can find a wing drag with no issue and has birds in the brain. Maybe too much...

cjhills
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by cjhills » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:13 pm

Throw the wing away. Sight pointing a wing on a string has nothing to do with anything useful. It is a breeders gimmick. Let her chase a bit and hopefully learn she can't catch them. Get her out on real birds, wild birds, planted pigeons or launcher. If you use a launcher make sure she does not get too close.........Cj

shags
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by shags » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:15 pm

Put the wing on shelf in the garage and don't use it for this pup anymore, unless maybe you can use it for retrieve training at some later time.

There is no "training" with a wing - it's just a little parlor trick that some folks use to assure themselves that their pup had some point, or as a prop to take cute puppy pictures, stuff like that.

No good comes from wing games at an age of more than about 2 months old, and even then only use the wing a couple times.

At 5 1/2 months your pup might be getting ready for a few planted, good-flying pigeons. Or quail, if you can find some jumpy, good flyers. She sounds like a good pup, and you'll have lots of fun with her.

Good luck!

polmaise
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by polmaise » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:31 pm

Yea, like I never play with a pup either .

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SwitchGrassWPG
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by SwitchGrassWPG » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:36 pm

Wing on a string is a cute game to play...maybe once. Get the dog on birds!
Only thing worse than a bad dog is no dog at all...

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Sharon
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by Sharon » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:28 pm

cjhills wrote:Throw the wing away. Sight pointing a wing on a string has nothing to do with anything useful. It is a breeders gimmick. Let her chase a bit and hopefully learn she can't catch them. Get her out on real birds, wild birds, planted pigeons or launcher. If you use a launcher make sure she does not get too close.........Cj
A gem in a nutshell . Well said.

(Maniac: Welcome to the forum. Dog is bored to death with the wing and trying to come up with something more exciting; "keep-a-way" is always exciting. :) )
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birddogger2
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by birddogger2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:14 pm

maniac01 -

What program are you following?

If you are not following a program...you should be.

What manner of obedience training are you doing with the dog?

Can the dog heel at your knee without a lead in the yard?

If not, that should be a priority. I am a firm believer in installing the brakes and the steering before taking the car out on to the track. Less wrecks that way. Your dog should have a good, solid heel and a good solid come in at this age.

Your dog has demonstrated it will point and point birds. Quit screwing around. All you will do is encourage bad habits that you will have to train out or train around later.

If you MUST mess with your dog with birds...get hard flying pigeons and use them to teach the dog it cannot catch a bird. Dogs that learn they can catch birds...will ALWAYS want to try. Not what you want them to learn and not the mindset you want in your dog.

Get either Paul Long's book or Training with Mo by Martha Greenlee. Read the book cover to cover and then read it again. Then go do what the book says to do...just the way it says to do it. Both are simple, straightforward and logically presented. Both will allow you to develop a first class bird dog...if you follow their instruction.

If you follow either program, you and your dog will be just fine.

If you do not get a good program and follow it, there is no telling what you will end up with.

RayG

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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by Trekmoor » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:59 am

I agree with the other posts. Forget the wing on a string. Your pup has already shown you she will point and even hold the point for several seconds on "real game." That is a very good starting place and a very good sign for the future.

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Featherfinder
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by Featherfinder » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:29 am

We all started somewhere so this is a lesson for you. Quite of a few dogs end up with issues right out of the box because of the wing-on-a-string-thing! 11 weeks to 20 1/2 weeks tells me your pup is a likely candidate. It's so much easier bringing a pup along rather than FIXING a pup. Sometimes resolving one issue manifests into another and another, etc.
What you have done is not insurmountable however you should have learned something from this that will serve you going forward. I suggest folk use the wing on a string once, take a pic, and then put the wing away until you get another pup. What I would really like to know is what the wing is supposed to convey?
Does it mean your pup has "point" in him?
Answer: Nope. A Chihuahua will point a item it isn't familiar with.
Does it tell you about his style on point as an adult dog?
Answer: Nope. Subsequent formal training practices and genetics will do that.
Throwing a wing for pup to retrieve is great until it is overdone and pup loses interest. If that happens, here you are RE-training or resolving an issue yet again.
There is lots of constructive fundamental fun-training to do with a pup as suggested.
Also suggested, find a program or a competent trainer to work with. It will save you time and money AND you'll end up with a better bird dog.

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Dakotazeb
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by Dakotazeb » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:29 am

The previous posts are correct. Ditch the wing!! On the other hand, your dog is only 5 1/2 months old. She is still a puppy and everything is new to her. Work on her obedience first and foremost, then get her in the field and let her explore. If you can get her into some birds that's fine but it's still early. If your dog has the proper breeding she will catch on. Be patient. We tend to expect too much too early out of our pups. BTW, where are you located?
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NEhomer
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by NEhomer » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am

Under advice from many in this forum, I never once used a wing-on-a-string for my setter.

Get some pigeons and launchers and don't tolerate her creeping.

Maniac01
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by Maniac01 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:12 am

Thanks for the advice everyone. Although I have hunted with dogs, this is the first dog that I am training and planning on taking in the field with me.

About the time I posted this forum I purchased a DVD set called "D.T. Systems Training Pointing Dogs Dvd Collection of Volumes 1 to 4" featuring George Hickox. It has proven to be very valuable as to what to expect and how / when to train.
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setterpoint
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by setterpoint » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:46 pm

you seen your dog will point so no more wing on strings thats all right for pups to do 2 or 3 times now its time to move on and start the dog on live birds quail or pegions when the dog is pointing those then it time forthe real things wild birds

Timewise65
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Re: Training Going Backwards..

Post by Timewise65 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:58 am

I agree with most, for me, I always start and end on Obedience, Obedience, Obedience! End each session with some fun...keep each session short!

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