Gun Dog Forum

bonasa wrote:I would buy the birds to use in a controlled area and guarantee the outcome as per your training beliefs. Get your bird work in, get your gun breaking in and work on any weaknesses. Birds are good for the dog, but to many are not, as always quit a winner on a high note.

Featherfinder wrote:Great info already supplied! I would definitely run on wild birds but not too frequently. Pigeons are vital in my processes because they are strong fliers that don't land prematurely as do other pen-raised game birds. There are some situations you should be aware of though.
Running on wild birds is great because dogs learn that these birds won't take too much crowding (hard to catch) and the dog learns where to typically find the species (habitat). However, wild birds in too much density can create bad habits. I have see dogs run smack dab into a woodcock "flight". In short order, this dog simply REFUSED to run! Every few steps the dog would cat-walk. Sure enough, there was another bird! She took a few fast steps followed by many more slow ones in anticipation of yet ANOTHER find! I carried that young dog out of the woods before it got really messed up!
Add to this that there are key indicators that I look for when training a young dog. For example, young dogs that find their legs believe they can catch birds. Elusive wild birds or well planted pigeons will eventually discourage the dog's belief that she/he can catch birds. They will convey this very clearly. When this indicator/milestone is achieved, you need to take the next step in a structured process to cultivate holding point - no more relentless chasing. If you don't recognize this indicator and allow certain dogs to continue chasing, they soon believe that chasing (not pointing) is THE intended game. If this persists, this dog can be a royal pain in the ___ to break later on. Again, the un-training has created a major re-training process.
With any arranged training scenario, I like to know where the birds are to ensure the dog is learning the planned/intended lesson. Basically, I control most of what transpires then I simply immerse the dog without a pile of yacking and hacking so that they can learn from the pre-arranged set-up. That can be virtually impossible with wild birds, regardless of species because you obviously don't have the control/anticipation factor.
Hence, I suggest you used a blended approach. Wild birds will teach a dog respect but if it's a structured lesson you are hoping to provide, you also need to know where the birds are in general increasing your odds to be in a position to capitalize - timing being critical. At this juncture, planted pigeons are the ticket, in my opinion.

Terrific post.