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Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby clattin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:35 am

Soooo....Otis is now 4 months old. He made his first point the other day on a chukar that was in a cage (see below). I had some frozen quail in the freezer so the other evening I put his check cord on him and had my son helping me. I went and hid the frozen quail in the brush in my backyard (big yard). I dragged it on the ground about 8' away from where I hid it. We took him around the long way and kept saying "bird" and he got real excited where I'd dragged the bird and then found the bird in the brush but never pointed it or even acted like he wanted to point it. He picked up right away and brought it to me, although he didn't want to give it to me and then he was WIRED. I didn't do any more with him because I didn't want to mess him up somehow but he was EXCITED! He was racing all around the yard checking all the thick areas for more birds and kept going back to the spot where I'd hidden it. My son thought that maybe because it was frozen he behaved differently. So, yesterday afternoon I got the bird out and let it thaw out completely and did the same exact thing with the same exact outcome.

I've never used a frozen bird to train a bird dog. My dad always used the "wing on a stick" when I was a kid with our bird dogs but I had a neighbor that raised field trial champion Brittany's who thought you don't need to do any of that stuff.....if the breeding is good, it will all come naturally. I never did anything with my previous Vizsla and he was great although he kinda struggled with running pheasants and grouse but I attributed that to the fact the he didn't get to hunt all that much.

1. Do I need to do any "point steadying" training at all? If so, what should I do differently?
2. The breeder where I got my previous dog and this dog likes to put scent into tennis balls and hide them around the yard...I picked up some pheasant scent from cabelas the other day but haven't done anything with it yet.
3. Is Otis too young to be working on this stuff? He's just 4 months. We're also working on basic obedience and retrieving and he's doing GREAT with that stuff.

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

Chris

His first point on the caged chukar:

Image
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Re: Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby NC Quailhunter » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:28 am

I am not trying to be gruff but you don't want him pointing a frozen bird. They are for retrieving work and hunting dead and drags when you are working on tracking. He did what he is supposed to do.
Forget the scents and get some pigeons or some strong flying bobwhite. JMHO.
Great looking pup and keep us up to date.
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Re: Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby vizslatrainer » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:11 pm

I would never expect a dog of any kind to point a frozen bird. You also dont want them pointing feathers either. There are plenty of books on the subject. :D
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Re: Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby setterpoint » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:56 pm

take him down to the super market and let him point some chickens .just kidding but leave the frozen birds alone and put him back on live birds theres nothing good can come of the frozen bird thing
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Re: Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby Featherfinder » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:23 am

Setterpoint, LOVE your sense of humor - perhaps because it reminds me of me. :)
Just to be fair to you Clattin, I suggest you buck up on some formative training strategies for your pup. At 4 months there is a great deal to learn but none of it has to do with a frozen bird. You need to have clear goals/milestones first before embarking on the training.
I add that with some dogs, a frozen bird can elicit a hard-mouthed grip which when applied to a fresh kill is less-than-ideal (.....crunch...crunch).
Your perception of what a bird dog should do or is capable of, is my greatest concern. You might want to develop a relationship with a knowledgeable mentor or trainer. This will help clarify your expectations for pup which will go a long way towards achieving success while minimizing the need for ensuing corrective training.
All the best with that nice looking pup.
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Re: Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby clattin » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:30 pm

Thanks for the replies! Appreciate the input!

Will keep you posted on his continued learning!

Chris
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Re: Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby polmaise » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:18 pm

clattin wrote:Thanks for the replies! Appreciate the input!

Will keep you posted on his continued learning!

Chris

I thought the original post was a 'wind up' ,until I seen your reply. Nice that you replied positively on the advice given.
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Re: Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby clattin » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:09 am

Chris[/quote]
I thought the original post was a 'wind up' ,until I seen your reply. Nice that you replied positively on the advice given.[/quote]

HaHa....I know everyone means well. I was prepared for strong opinions and comments.....goes with internet forums. Its all good advice and I accept it as such!

Chris
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Re: Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby Featherfinder » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:16 am

Polmaise, in the original post there were actually (at least) 2 questions as I re-read it. As such, I didn't seen anything wrong with any of the responses. All were sent with the best of intentions.
Chris received the comments as intended, I believe.
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Re: Vizsla Pup won't point frozen quail

Postby sure as shootin » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:29 pm

I'm fairly new at training a pointer (griff), as well, at least to the polished gun dog stage, although I have owned two great britannies in the past that were upland bird hunting machines. As mentioned, it sounded like your dog did exactly what it was supposed to. My previous dogs never pointed dead birds. They'd just move in and retrieve them just as your pup did.

I used to do the pheasant wing on fishing pole thing, too, back in the day until I realized it was just "sight pointing" instead of pointing by the sense of smell but because my brits lived in a time when there were lots of wild pheasants where I lived, they developed strong points quickly when they were no older than your pup is now.

It sounds like some of the folks replying to the original post don't believe in using frozen or thawed birds at all but I thought I'd mention that in Jon Hanns'' Perfect Retrieve DVD series he uses them as one of his progressions for both FF and for natural retrieves.

Attn. previous posters,,,,,any thoughts on this? Do they still have a place in teaching a solid retrieve?
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